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Ron Dough
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« Reply #195 on: 08:35:35, 17-04-2007 » |
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No Ollie, it's not a commercial recording, but a live concert from Bulgaria, presumably many moons ago (details as per the link);
2.00am Shostakovich, Dmitri (1906-1975): Piano Concerto No 2 in F Dmitri Shostakovich (piano) Sofia Philharmonic Orchestra Konstantin Iliev (conductor)
Googling the conductor's name reveals he was a leading light in Bulgaria's contemporary music scene until his death in 1988, and I'm guessing that the recording was made some considerable time before the composer's death in 1975. A concert performance may well reveal aspects of his pianism not captured during studio sessions...
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #196 on: 09:26:37, 17-04-2007 » |
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Thank you Ron Dough. I am ready to buy now. I am looking at Kondrashin. After what you said and how much I thought about Shostakovich, read the thread I think I should apply myself to listening.
I am going to go on life challenges thread to tell about my little challenge that I have (though it is silly). It is connected and is not connected to Shostakovich.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #197 on: 11:06:19, 17-04-2007 » |
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I dimly remember reading somewhere that one of DSCH's teachers gave him the career advice to "write yourself a concerto that you can take all over the place, playing it yourself and getting your name known". This is certainly a Russian tradition which continues even today. I think it partly explains the very light scoring (strings and obligatto C-trumpet) in Pnc Cnc No 1 - it was a work that could be performed almost anywhere. I didn't realise Shostakovich was still playing his own concerti so late in his career, though.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House" - Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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time_is_now
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« Reply #198 on: 11:15:36, 17-04-2007 » |
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Would he have been aware (and if so, how strongly) of the example of Bartók?
[I know we've discussed B's awareness of - and alleged musical parody of - S, but not the other way round ...]
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #199 on: 11:50:45, 17-04-2007 » |
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I think Shostakovich new about Bartok. Bartok was admired very much when I was in college. May be he was not known by many in Stalin's time. I think Shostakovich most certainly was aware of Bartok and his music. I don't know if it made any influence on Shostakovich's music. May be Bartok made some kind of influence on Prokofiev, but even that I am not sure. There were cross influences between Stravinsky and all other contemporaries.
If Shostakovich was dry pianist it tells a lot about his personality. He probably luck warmth. His music is passionate sometimes, but can be dry too.
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Baziron
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« Reply #200 on: 12:45:59, 17-04-2007 » |
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With the present discouragement of political comment the labour involved in our forthcoming review of the Eighth Symphony is at a stroke considerably reduced. We had always intended to criticise it as absolute music in any case, rather than as some sort of rival to Beethoven's Wellington's Victory. The research we have been undertaking is to clarify the composer's character and motives...
Dear Syd, There is not - and never has been - such a thing as "absolute music". There is only "relative music" - i.e. music produced by somebody, at some time, for some purpose, under some constraint. No valid analysis of music will mean anything unless embodied within it is an understanding and recognition of the person, the time, the purpose and the constraint. Haggling over things like "form", " orchestration", "taste" etc. merely serves to deflect "person, time, purpose and constraint" from the object to the subject. All too often such analyses only reveal facts about the analyst rather than what he/she purports to be analysing. I shall expect better of you than this when I read your analysis of Shostakovich's 8th Symphony! Regards. Baz
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« Last Edit: 12:47:53, 17-04-2007 by Baziron »
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #201 on: 12:58:41, 17-04-2007 » |
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The first Bartok piano concerto was in 1926: Shostakovich's first in 1933, so since it's before the big clampdown it isn't impossible that Shostakovich was emulating a foreign tradition of composer pianists touring a concerto. However, surely a stronger example, and closer to home, would have been Prokofiev, whose five piano concerti were written between 1911 and 1932, and at least three of which were premièred by the composer himself, the final one on tour abroad. A recording of that event is still available: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Apr04/Prokofiev_Furtwangler.htmIn any case, wasn't Shostakovich's second (1956) written for Maxim, his son, rather than himself? Maxim is not only the dedicatee, but was also the soloist at the première in 1957.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #202 on: 13:09:15, 17-04-2007 » |
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This is very interesting. Prokofiev waas taught by Esipova (Leschetizky student and wife). He has good finter technique and polished nice way of playing I think. I will buy it and wash my head with two in one shampoo.
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #204 on: 13:19:04, 17-04-2007 » |
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I am fairly sure Shostakovich's second piano concerto was written for his son, as a graduation or birthday present.
Prokofiev didn't record much because he didn't like the relatively poor sound quality of 78s then. I know that he had a high reputation as a pianist but I have a CD of piano rolls made by him and I am surprised that his playing isn't quite together. I put it down to the mechanism of the pianola.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #205 on: 13:20:27, 17-04-2007 » |
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Thank you ollie, I always think about Shostakovich and Prokofiev together (just because they were Soviet composers). In fact I don't think they liked each other. It is curious to know what Shostakovich thought of Bartok.
I don't think Prokoviev was exciting pianist (in a way Rachmaninoff was). This is for Tony.
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #206 on: 13:32:40, 17-04-2007 » |
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Prokofiev's Soviet Diary for 1927 (his first visit to the USSR before he decided to settle there) is well worth reading for his descriptions of the various piano recitals he gives. He always got rapturous applause, but perhaps there were other reasons for that. In one concert he complains about the audience being too close to him and staring at what his hands and feet were doing.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #207 on: 14:21:16, 17-04-2007 » |
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There is not - and never has been - such a thing as "absolute music". There is only "relative music" - i.e. music produced by somebody, at some time, for some purpose, under some constraint. No valid analysis of music will mean anything unless embodied within it is an understanding and recognition of the person, the time, the purpose and the constraint. We regret to say that the Member is mistaken. If we turn first to Percy Scholes' Dictionary we find indeed an entry under that head. There is such a thing as "Absolute Music" he tells us; it is "instrumental music which exists simply as such, i.e. not 'Programme Music' (q.v.)." We are quite worried though by his use of the word "instrumental" there. Now there is also, as we would expect, an entry in Grove's Dictionary; but we definitely do not advise Members to refer to it. It is a long entry but it is appallingly bad wrong and biassed in every possible way. Its author is one Roger Scruton. No, let us turn to a far more authoritative and dependable writer. The admirable English critic and theorist Sydney Grew (our namesake) writes as follows: "All the permanent art of the world is the art that goes on moulding and fashioning men to its own likeness, so that the art is more vital a hundred years later than it is in the year of its production, and still more vital two hundred years later. Pure art operates on us in the way of nature, helping us to grow according to our kind. It never dies, and it never becomes old-fashioned. The religion, philosophy, or particular idealism from which it rose may pass, yet the art remains, exactly as literature still lives in a language that is dead.
"The art which pleases or depresses according to our temporary mood in the end decays, because it has not the power to create a living, self-developing mood in us. Since Liszt's music belongs to this kind of art, one can say that it will not form part of the permanent possessions of humanity."
Thus our great Sydney Grew. Does he not there excellently refute the Member's suggestions? (Members will know of course that it was Liszt who introduced the term "Programme Music" in contradistinction to "Absolute".) We would only append here a reminder that true Art must also display 1) the necessity of its subject; 2) the necessity of its production or existence; 3) a self-contained and organic structure in which each part and aspect refers to and requires the other parts, and in some way, indeed in as many ways as possible, contributes to the heightening of the effect of the whole; and 4) the exclusion as far as possible of everything incidental, i.e. not contributing to that heightening. The Greeks already knew all that; let us try to live up to their example! Judged against this high and absolute standard the man Shortacowitch as we shall shortly have occasion to point out fell in his efforts very very short indeed.
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« Last Edit: 01:43:31, 18-04-2007 by Sydney Grew »
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time_is_now
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« Reply #208 on: 14:42:44, 17-04-2007 » |
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It is a long entry but it is appallingly bad wrong and biassed in every possible way. Its author is one Roger Scruton. Why am I not surprised? (On the other hand, surely Mr Grew means 'biased'. 'Biassed' would seem to denote something rather less concerned with the sorts of pleasure afforded by absolute music, and more firmly in the physical realm, although a hyphen might be required to make that meaning clear.) Another thought. Does Mr Grew (we speak now of the original holder of that name) not commit something of a tautology in making '"permanent" art' the object of his definition?
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #209 on: 16:09:56, 17-04-2007 » |
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'Bright' is what the Bolshoi Ballet called it when their Reiner-recommended production came to London last year. Enjoyable it was too.
Indeed, George, and 'The Bright Stream' is returning when the Bolshoi come back this July (16th-18th) as part of a season at the Coli (mailing just arrived).
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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