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Author Topic: Piano playing style  (Read 1425 times)
trained-pianist
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« Reply #15 on: 23:54:07, 21-05-2007 »

It is on my list now.
I am writing various books, recordings and scores that I want to buy.
It is beginning to look like a good list.

I am busy at the moment with exams and some accompanying chores are more difficult than others. I hope to have more time next week to start looking if some scores of contemporary composers are readily available. I can absorb some things during summer.

Thank you Ian so much for giving me so many good ideas.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #16 on: 00:12:32, 22-05-2007 »

Thought an example might be of interest - the passage below is from Chopin's gorgeous Nocturne in B major Op. 62 No. 1



Here you have two simultaneous melodic lines in the treble, in the manner of an operatic duet, and a far-from-insignificant accompaniment in the bass. I would probably do something like the following: at the beginning of the second, play the A# very fractionally after the bass G# and treble B, then the F# on the fourth quaver a little after the bass, and the melody D# slightly later still. Then a slower spread on the following C#/E/D# both to highlight the desolation of the dissonant harmony. Then the first C# at the beginning of the next bar a little after the bass G#, so it doesn't get so obviously caught in the resonance. The A# on the second crotchet beat with the bass B but before the treble D#, to maintain a sense of two line. Then as the music proceed towards the 6-3 chord towards the end of the last bar, increasingly playing the two lines in the treble slightly apart from one another to add to the sense of tension generated by their simultaneous presence (so that, for example, the first D# in the treble in the last bar is more significantly after the C#, and the second D# later still, also the A# after the bass C# - indeed most of the bass crotchets just before the treble, so one can hear those as a line). Then the accented C# in the bass, if played a little early, does not need to swamp the melodic F#s (that is, if one thinks the accent only applies to that note, it may apply to them all). This may be rather over-extravagant for some people's taste, and the practices can be adopted to a lesser degree as well. Would be interested to know what any of you think if you try it out!
« Last Edit: 00:18:12, 22-05-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
SusanDoris
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« Reply #17 on: 14:14:22, 22-05-2007 »

Ian Pace, TP and all

Many thanks for such interesting answers; it is such a pleasure to read threads on these MBs as it's like going on mini-courses on many different subjects.  Lovely.

(Also sorry for not catching up with this later yesterday or earlier this morning. )
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increpatio
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« Reply #18 on: 18:02:31, 22-05-2007 »

... this was, I believe, a major factor in bringing about the 'play out the melody, play everything else pianissimo' approach to the instrument. Allowing some desynching between parts enables alternatives.

I find this idea very interesting. What are the alternatives of which you speak?

[I idly wonder just how much people would have broken poor Bach's fugues up back in the old days. (On this topic, I think Busoni said of the playing of fugues, that he preferred to emphasise the free parts over the subjects, that the main melodies were a framework around which the fugue was built).]
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #19 on: 23:04:11, 22-05-2007 »

... this was, I believe, a major factor in bringing about the 'play out the melody, play everything else pianissimo' approach to the instrument. Allowing some desynching between parts enables alternatives.

I find this idea very interesting. What are the alternatives of which you speak?

Simply being able to have a greater equality of voicing between parts, without some getting lost in the process or the texture sounding too cloudy. And of course various differing degrees of this.

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[I idly wonder just how much people would have broken poor Bach's fugues up back in the old days. (On this topic, I think Busoni said of the playing of fugues, that he preferred to emphasise the free parts over the subjects, that the main melodies were a framework around which the fugue was built).]

Sure - Busoni's ideas on Bach were very much filtered through late romantic ideals, though. Interesting in their own right, but I would say extremely different from Bach's conceptions. Of course it would be possible to foreground one voice dynamically on a fugue written for the harpsichord.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
increpatio
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« Reply #20 on: 16:48:13, 23-05-2007 »

Simply being able to have a greater equality of voicing between parts, without some getting lost in the process or the texture sounding too cloudy. And of course various differing degrees of this.

I shall have to listen to my harpsichord and clavichord recordings of the wtc *much* more carefully tonight.

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Sure - Busoni's ideas on Bach were very much filtered through late romantic ideals, though. Interesting in their own right, but I would say extremely different from Bach's conceptions. Of course it would be possible to foreground one voice dynamically on a fugue written for the harpsichord.

By possible, you mean impossible?  (oh; unless you talk of registers)
« Last Edit: 16:56:31, 23-05-2007 by increpatio » Logged

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richard barrett
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« Reply #21 on: 16:57:12, 23-05-2007 »

By possible, you mean impossible?
I think he means "possible on a piano".
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increpatio
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« Reply #22 on: 17:14:46, 23-05-2007 »

By possible, you mean impossible?
I think he means "possible on a piano".

Oh.  Bugger. I misread.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #23 on: 17:16:51, 23-05-2007 »

Can anybody explain to me Busoni's ideas about Bach. I had a book on Busoni in Russian by Kogan (I have several other books on pianism by him) and I understood nothing.
I think I left the book some where because it annoyed me that I don't understand it.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #24 on: 17:20:29, 23-05-2007 »

The best explanation to Busoni's ideas on Bach is to be found in Busoni's scores, I would say.
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eruanto
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« Reply #25 on: 19:49:50, 23-05-2007 »

I went to see Lukas Vondracek at the Queen Elizabeth Hall last week (and yes, he is the same age as me  Shocked Embarrassed). More or less every piece he played had some degree of desynchronisation. Though, it was always the right before the left (as increpatio mentioned, i think). Everything from Moonlight Sonata to Rach-ers G minor Prelude (where he also managed to break a string Cheesy) was like that. eerie i found it (to almost quote mrs sedley).
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #26 on: 20:24:10, 23-05-2007 »

Back to Busoni, can anybody tell suggest any pieces by Busoni that a mediocre musician like me could play?
I know Busoni made transcription of Bach's organ pieces. I think they are above me. In any case I can not look at them first because they are not available here. I don't want to order if I am not going to play them.
I am considering to put them on my wish list together with Alkan. I wish I could see Godowsky arrangements too. Someone here told me that he arranged Schubert Musical moments in F minor really well. The problem is that I need too much and I can not buy everything at once. I have to rationalize it.
About desyncronisation, I thought that pianists play the left before the right hand more often. Now I can see that I was wrong.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #27 on: 20:52:39, 23-05-2007 »

(and yes, he is the same age as me  Shocked Embarrassed)

I hate to say this, but judging by your photo I'd have guessed you were much older Shocked
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eruanto
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« Reply #28 on: 20:55:36, 23-05-2007 »

t-i-n  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


t-p, i know very little busoni,

but only play the transcription of bach d minor chaconne (orig. for violin) if you're really desperate. it's a great favourite of fellow college students at the moment ; i must have heard it at least four times this year.

whoops just noticed your remarks regarding transcriptions.

i'll bugler off now.  Grin
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #29 on: 21:27:09, 23-05-2007 »

eruando,
This was a good suggestion. Thank you very much. I was thinking more in terms of organ transcriptions. I completely forgot violin transcriptions.
I am so far removed now from any music department, anything really that  anything you say is very helpful.
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