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Author Topic: Joanna MacGregor on radio 3, new repertoire  (Read 1022 times)
Ian Pace
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« Reply #15 on: 14:08:55, 04-04-2007 »

Thank you so much martle and time_is_now for answering. This is a new name for me. He obviously lived during industrial revolution time (end of 19th century). He does use perspective, I think, though perhaps in a different way. His paintings remind me of Dutch painters of earlier time.
In music it is good to find shape of the piece and perspective of development. Rachmaninoff is known to have a specific point in each piece of music to which he built the whole piece.

As with painting, that does represent a rather particular set of aesthetic priorities (which some feminist critics might accuse of being too 'goal-oriented', and I, from a slightly different angle, would say places too great a value upon 'closure'). There is plenty of music old and new which does not operate so fundamentally in terms of such a teleological principle; just to limit to the last two centuries, Schubert, Chopin, Mussorgsky, Debussy or Feldman would be some examples.
« Last Edit: 14:10:33, 04-04-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
trained-pianist
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« Reply #16 on: 14:39:50, 04-04-2007 »

I find that the association with painting is so good. It is good for imagination too for me because I tend to imagine the same things. I am not very strong on bringing out the form. One has to go on and dont stop. As Schnabel said to his students to go on. I (like many women) have a tendency to be bogged down by details. The last viola player (who was a girl) felt the form and the sense of going very well. One has to be always on the way, going somewhere. I think it is boring otherwise.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #17 on: 14:49:45, 04-04-2007 »

I find that the association with painting is so good. It is good for imagination too for me because I tend to imagine the same things. I am not very strong on bringing out the form. One has to go on and dont stop. As Schnabel said to his students to go on. I (like many women) have a tendency to be bogged down by details. The last viola player (who was a girl) felt the form and the sense of going very well. One has to be always on the way, going somewhere. I think it is boring otherwise.

I remember Finnissy opining that to him form was a verb rather than a noun - so one 'forms' a piece rather than so much creating a 'form'. There's something in that, as a way beyond over-objectification, I reckon.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
martle
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« Reply #18 on: 15:36:14, 04-04-2007 »

That's VERY good from Finnissy. I'm going to use that. (Mentally, I mean.)
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Green. Always green.
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The artiste formerly known as Gabrielle d’Estrées


« Reply #19 on: 23:11:03, 04-04-2007 »


His paintings remind me of Dutch painters of earlier time.

A very perceptive observation, which had never occured to me.Thanks for that!
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wotthehell toujours gai archy
martle
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« Reply #20 on: 23:16:30, 04-04-2007 »

Yes, t-p, that's very astute. By the way, Lowry lived from 1887-1976, so not really a chronicler of the industrial revolution; but certainly one of its 20thC consequences on working life in the north of England. And for my money, he did 'perspective' brilliantly.
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Green. Always green.
time_is_now
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« Reply #21 on: 14:47:37, 05-04-2007 »

His paintings remind me of Dutch painters of earlier time.

A very perceptive observation, which had never occurred to me.Thanks for that!

Yes, me neither. Thanks, t-p!

Also forgot to thank you for the beautiful Cézanne painting. Here's another of my favourites - the perspective is completely 'wrong' (the fruit would be falling out of the bowls if you interpreted the perspective literally here), indeed naturalism is so far from Cézanne's mind that the apples and oranges are often hard to tell apart (and many of them look like peaches to me anyway!!), but you couldn't say it wasn't carefully planned. In fact, draw two diagonals making a cross to find where the exact centre of the painting is, and look how carefully he's planted that apple. It looks to be much further than half-way down, but it's not. Now if that's not called perspective of some sort, I don't know what it is called.


« Last Edit: 17:14:15, 05-04-2007 by time_is_now » Logged

The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
George Garnett
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« Reply #22 on: 15:07:38, 05-04-2007 »

Never occurred to me either, t-p. Thanks for that!

This sort of thing perhaps?





« Last Edit: 15:10:27, 05-04-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
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« Reply #23 on: 17:03:27, 05-04-2007 »

Yes, this is what I had in mind. When we were in London (1996) we went to a museum where there was so many Dutch paintings. I fall in love with them.
I don't know whether or not there is a perspective in them, but they look very real to me. I think that some painters took the idea of perspective to far to the extreme and paintins lost soul.
If one does everything by rules it kills something. It is like they started to teach how to write fuges and it died (after Bach's death when they began to teach it at the Universities).

In real life there is no exact  plan. To me Cezanne's apples look more real than on a photo.
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