As I say, that was in response to one particular argument that was made, in terms of one interpretation taking priority over others simply because it came later. In some cases that may of course be true (including this one), but it does not follow as a general rule.

Well, there is a case for a certain humility in light of the fact that there is a wide body of writing and opinion on this subject by many people who've studied it for many years. I do grant that greater weight than what comes up in a relatively casual messageboard, yes, and wouldn't want to declare closure without knowing all of that work, all the range of interpretations, in detail (and even then would be wary, knowing how touch-and-go many other issues of performance practice can be, even concerning later eras where there is significantly more documentation).

That's not an inference, it's a particular (subjective, though also one I've heard very frequently from people from many other countries, as well as as a criticism of predominant tastes in British criticism) response to a school of performance. Happens to be rather negative, but I don't see why it's racist (unless one thinks any identification of regionally specific schools of performance is so), any more than drawing attention to particular stylistic characteristics of French orchestras, say?

Fair enough - but don't forget that not that many singers sing with their speech accents. Both French and German singers still use the lingual r in singing (at least in 'art music') as opposed to pronouncing the r in the throat, for example. More importantly they also adopt more open vowels simply because of the demands of vocal production. The trickier Germanic dialects are also often reflected in their written forms when they have one, not simply in different ways of pronouncing the same word.

The differences between French or German Latin and the Italianate version are also rather spectacular in the vowel department, which makes the tonal palette of melismatic writing (and let's face it the Baroque has a lot of that) quite different. I wouldn't expect that to be true to quite the same extent within a single language - at least not without an intervening revolution or two...

But this is very far from being my specialised field so I don't think I should make any more a fool of myself here than I possibly already have.

No, but I imagine there are (perhaps multiple) styles of bassoon playing that are frequently adopted and taught in French institutions, which also play a part in producing the characteristic sounds one hears. Just as I can often recognise a 'Juilliard' style of string-playing - there are exceptions, of course, but the style seems common enough to warrant designation as a school. And what I'm referring to as 'Anglo-Saxon Bach-Lite' is a style of playing that seems relatively normative in a lot of the UK and some institutions in the US and elsewhere (the places in the US where it is less so (for example Juilliard, not that I carry any particular card for that place, or Curtis), are often those where there has been most influence of other schools, e.g. Russian or German).

Up to you.

Like "kömmt" as opposed to "kommt" you mean? 

Well: none of us really knows, of course. But I think it's time someone out there gave us something to listen to that would help us to make our minds up. Bear in mind that the RP used in performances of English-texted music didn't exist then either, and there would be many differences even after the English Revolution (which didn't change the way people talk as much as the aftermath of the unification of Germany in the 19th century would have done), as we hear in Purcell (where for example "confusion" always has four syllables, which I find sounds very odd indeed in the context of 20th-century RP).

Baz, I thought upping and offing was one of your specialties...

Yes - and apologies for having trespassed upon this thread with a single posting. I'll now withdraw again, and leave it in the capable hands of the experts.

Baz

I don't think anyone said anything about superseding previous interpretations - just making them look less definitive.

And no, the comments on 'Anglo-Saxon Bach-Lite' are not simply comparable to 'drawing attention to particular stylistic characteristics of French orchestras, say'. One is about saying X is different from Y. The other is about saying X is worse than Y. And I'm afraid the issue being alluded to is so bound up with a quite different discussion over which the initials O.K. hover silently but unmistakably that I'm finding it hard to see how it sheds much light on the subject at hand.

I don't think you do yourself any favours, Ian, by taking this super-critical approach to posts by people you've had issues with in completely different threads in the past. I know you think you're intervening on behalf of scholarly fairness and the representation of different viewpoints, but you go so noticeably easier on comments by people like strina and t-p who happen to tick your own particular boxes that it becomes very hard to take you seriously when you dismiss the rest of the posting population here with comments like:
It's very odd that you believe academic 'specialists' on contemporary music should take more cognisance of what the man in the street thinks, but that as soon as the man in the street is British and interested in classical music his opinions become not only worthless but deserving of your scorn.

As for saying that 'there is a wide body of writing and opinion on this subject by many people who've studied it for many years, [and] I do grant that greater weight than what comes up in a relatively casual messageboard', I didn't have the impression anyone on this thread was seeking to claim greater weight for their comments than for scholarly contributions on the subject.

Could be a fruitful line of discussion, but in a new thread I should suggest. This thread has now been effectively closed by the person who started it - possibly because he feels it has gone the distance. If there was any doubt, please note the content of this...


It seems to me that when abuse of this magnitude is thrown at an entire messageboard community (which otherwise thinks it is a community of friends) there is little more to contribute to the topic itself.

Baz