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Author Topic: Re: New Moderator argument  (Read 2433 times)
Bryn
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« Reply #45 on: 20:57:47, 20-10-2007 »

A, until I got to your final sentence I thought you must be refereing to John and Michael as those "2 people".
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A
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« Reply #46 on: 21:01:52, 20-10-2007 »

You are equally free to express your own views on the type of board you'd like, and the style of moderation, A.

I liked it at is was, without all the bickering. Cry Cry

A
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Well, there you are.
Ian Pace
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« Reply #47 on: 21:03:17, 20-10-2007 »

Can I ask what was so wrong with this board in the period immediately preceding a couple of weeks ago? As I've said elsewhere, there are posters who have contributed more frequently on M&S, who I think would enhance this board as well, but that notwithstanding, what was the problem? Was the whole board really so threatened by the existence of the commodification thread, for example?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Andy D
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« Reply #48 on: 21:58:58, 20-10-2007 »

I must be a bit dim, but there can only be one reason as to why 2 people who spend most of their time objecting to and criticising other people's opinions should want to come and tell us all what to do...

They think their thoughts and statements are better than ours.

Is this so? - -Think about it ... do we want these men telling us what to think?

Bring back John and Michael I say.

A

I agree with you A. The dismissive arrogance of Ian Pace isn't going to endear him to many here. The certainty that you are right can be a very dangerous thing. However his initial suggestion of George Garnett as a moderator is very sensible. Unfortunately GG doesn't seem to have posted since 12 October so he might be away on holiday.
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John W
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« Reply #49 on: 22:00:44, 20-10-2007 »

Can I ask what was so wrong with this board in the period immediately preceding a couple of weeks ago? As I've said elsewhere, there are posters who have contributed more frequently on M&S, who I think would enhance this board as well, but that notwithstanding, what was the problem? Was the whole board really so threatened by the existence of the commodification thread, for example?

Ian,

First of all, the commodification thread is still intact and has not been added to since M&S was formed.

Secondly, I am tired saying why I took the action I did. It was the last straw in an almost monthly series of incidents or necessities for intervention. The Argment board was formed yet anyone sent there refused to use it and new trouble was created later, the latest was the attack on Baz.

I felt that rather than allow the intellectuals to ruin R3ok give them the opportunity to form their own forum. They have. So R3ok decides to reorganise the moderation roles and Ian comes back for the very first time to the very thread that is arranging this and challenges the existence of R3ok, and expresses contempt for the majority of the members here. When I refer to 'silent majority' I refer to members who DO post but have not involved themselves in the this latest debacle.

During the last week R3ok has returned to being a peaceful forum, some of the silent majority began posting again, while the M&S forum without an audience has posted mainly trivia and some members decide to return here and disrupt things again.

John W
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thompson1780
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« Reply #50 on: 22:07:42, 20-10-2007 »

Would anyone like me to be a Mod?  I'd be quite happy with Ollie, Richard, IGI,.....

But if anyone wants to second me and take it to a vote that's fine.  I actually think tinners would be rather good, as would PW.  I do get a bit worried about the time commitment, so woudl quite like it if three were 3 of us.

Anyway, I'll stick my name up, and see what happens.

Cheers

Tommo
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BobbyZ
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« Reply #51 on: 22:09:51, 20-10-2007 »

I'll second Tommo. There are other candidates who are already nominated / seconded who I am also very happy with but the more quality candidates the better.
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Dreams, schemes and themes
Bryn
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« Reply #52 on: 22:10:53, 20-10-2007 »

John, I have a feeling that quite a few here are well and truly fed up with your refusal to bow to the expressed will of those who voted in the poll regarding your wrong-headed moderation decision.
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Morticia
Admin/Moderator Group
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« Reply #53 on: 22:12:40, 20-10-2007 »

Would anyone like me to be a Mod?  I'd be quite happy with Ollie, Richard, IGI,.....

But if anyone wants to second me and take it to a vote that's fine.  I actually think tinners would be rather good, as would PW.  I do get a bit worried about the time commitment, so woudl quite like it if three were 3 of us.

Anyway, I'll stick my name up, and see what happens.

Cheers

Tommo

I second Tommo!

Oh rats!  BobbyZ got there first. I`ll third yer then Grin
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #54 on: 22:13:59, 20-10-2007 »

I agree with you A. The dismissive arrogance of Ian Pace isn't going to endear him to many here.
Maybe a certain antipathy towards the whole view of snobbish superiority that is deeply embroiled in the process of appreciating 'classical' (or 'serious' - thus implying other things are non-'serious') music strikes you as 'dismissive arrogance'; actually I believe it is that culture itself that is dismissive and arrogant, not least with respect to the views of the much wider population. And one can observe that when there are posters who do dispute some of the basic assumptions upon which appreciation of classical music (let alone of new music). I believe in inclusiveness, and that a board should be able to accommodate the wider views of classical music that those deeply embroiled with it tend to ignore.

What would you like from moderation, other than the return of John and Michael?

By the way, I'm far from being certain of being right, or else I wouldn't offer up thoughts on forums in the knowledge that they will be discussed and possibly disputed.

(and I will also draw attention to the fact that the ad hominem attacks of Andy D, like those of Reiner before him, seem not to bother the current moderators at all, despite rules against personal attacks. Perhaps ad hominem attacks are fine and dandy as long as they are made by people one agrees with?)
« Last Edit: 22:16:29, 20-10-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Ian Pace
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« Reply #55 on: 22:17:43, 20-10-2007 »

Secondly, I am tired saying why I took the action I did. It was the last straw in an almost monthly series of incidents or necessities for intervention.
What were these incidents, specifically in, say, the two months leading up to the decision?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
John W
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« Reply #56 on: 22:18:44, 20-10-2007 »

Bryn,

Yes I know 'quite a few' are unhappy, but I don't think that poll was fair as it seemed to involve mostly those who formed M&S.

I don't know what the best thing to do was but at that time I was acting with the interests of this forum to the fore. I am still here now pleading for a peacful R3ok. It cannot be called R3ok if it cannot be primarily a forum with a common interest in the music broadcast on Radio 3, the name cannot change so I felt it was time to suggest another forum for those who abused the regular members here and posted for their own political purposes.

I don't think that was too much to ask for, and I can't see why the two forums could not live happily together.


John W
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Reiner Torheit
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WWW
« Reply #57 on: 22:19:29, 20-10-2007 »

My own opinion is that any decisions made about the running and moderation of this board should be taken entirely in isolation, and not in relation to what other boards, with other memberships and different agendas, may exist?  I have said before and say again that I wish the M&S board success, although I have no wish to post there - but we discussing this board and its administration here, and that shouldn't be done on an "if you don't like it you can go over there" basis.

May I ask a question which may seem both anally retentive and paranoid (I'm sure someone somewhere will enjoy me admitting it..) but does seem pertinent?  My question is: "Will voting be restricted to the current active membership?"   It seems to me that there is nothing to stop vote-rigging by signing-up duplicate memberships, by encouraging one's off-board friends to join-up and vote etc?  (I feel entitled to ask as there are two memberships in my name - one from before I took a "sabbatical", and one from after I came back.  One is disabled, in the sense that I don't have the password to it to be able to use it, and it would be transparent from the "last visited" date that it hadn't been used to vote.)   When, in Don B's words, "Krakatoa erupted" we even had dormant members rushing back in order to announce they were leaving! Wink   Dormant members I can cope with, posting isn't obligatory - but how can we guard against misuse of votes by duplicate memberships or similar practices?   Or are we just going to pursue an "honesty policy" and hope that real-life individuals who might happen to have two memberships only vote with one of them?

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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Ian Pace
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« Reply #58 on: 22:23:47, 20-10-2007 »

Yes I know 'quite a few' are unhappy, but I don't think that poll was fair as it seemed to involve mostly those who formed M&S.
That sort of claim could be used to discredit any type of free poll, just because one doesn't like the views of those who chose to participate. There was nothing to prevent any single member of r3ok from posting to that poll, whatever their view might be. How could it not be 'fair'? Indeed, might it not have been more 'fair', if it hadn't been removed from the board before more members (who might have been away) might have had a chance to post?

This is a very strange conception of democracy, as I see it. Once more:

Bertolt Brecht - Die Lösung

Nach dem Aufstand des 17. Juni
Ließ der Sekretär des Schriftstellerverbands
In der Stalinallee Flugblätter verteilen
Auf denen zu lesen war, daß das Volk
Das Vertrauen der Regierung verscherzt habe
Und es nur durch verdoppelte Arbeit
Zurückerobern könne.  Wäre es da
Nicht doch einfacher, die Regierung
Löste das Volk auf und
Wählte ein anderes?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #59 on: 22:25:07, 20-10-2007 »

Yes I know 'quite a few' are unhappy, but I don't think that poll was fair as it seemed to involve mostly those who formed M&S.

Not fair? It was open to all for about two days (until you closed it, John) and only one other poster (other than yourself) voted for the option that 'political threads' had no place on the R3ok boards. There were over 40 voters, three of whom, I think, left the boards subsequently.
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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