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Author Topic: Trumpets - I don't get it...  (Read 704 times)
rauschwerk
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« Reply #15 on: 17:50:44, 22-10-2007 »

Oliver, I quote from Michael Marissen's article on the Brandenburg Concertos in the Oxford Bach Companion (ed. Boyd, 1999). He has this to say about No 2:-

"It is often reported that Penzel's copies (a score and a set of performing parts) represent an early version with the horn in place of the trumpet... . Careful study of Penzel's manuscripts reveals, however, that ... the indication 'ô vero Corne da Caccia' was added afterwards to what originally read only 'Tromba', presumably because no trumpeters were available who could negotiate the part or who owned the odd size of trumpet required to match the ensemble."

Penzel was one of Bach's last pupils and is remembered as one of the most reliable copyists of Bach's works.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #16 on: 18:44:18, 22-10-2007 »

I'm a bit surprised that it took so long for the valved trumpet to be invented - is the technology that advanced? Perhaps people were happy with trumpets the way they were

I have the feeling it's a bit of both. In the 19th century, music became harmonically much more complex, whereas previously changing crooks now and again for pieces in different keys was sufficient; also, many composers (including Berlioz, otherwise a regular advocate of instrumental innovation) felt that unvalved brass sounded better; and, as for the technology, it may well have been difficult before the industrial revolution (and more widespread use of machine tools) for small workshops to make the valve or rotor mechanisms with sufficient precision as not to leak or get stuck. That last point is off the top of my head and may well deserve to stay there.

Bach's nomenclature for brass instruments seems to be all over the place though - he would often write "Tromba o corno da tirarsi" in the cantatas (slide-trumpet or horn) and I don't think it's at all clear at this point what would actually have been used.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #17 on: 20:09:07, 22-10-2007 »

it may well have been difficult before the industrial revolution (and more widespread use of machine tools) for small workshops to make the valve or rotor mechanisms with sufficient precision as not to leak or get stuck.

I think that's almost certainly the principle reason why valved brass instruments came about at the time they did, RB Smiley   When we were discussing "trumpets versus cornets" (in relation to the Rossini/Verdi repertoire and HIP) some while ago, Ollie pointed to a social division which limited trumpets (for various military and heraldic reasons) to the retinue of nobles, princes, counts, field-marshalls, margraves, landgraves, Electors Of Palatine, and sundry nobs and toffs.  No-one else could have them,  although they could play "on loan" elsewhere by prior agreement.  This "closed shop" gave little encouragement for technical development of the instrument, whereas the emerging prosperous merchant and professional classes in the C19th could afford to have cornets - and did so.  Once cornets had "pinched all the work" by dint of valves which permitted them to play conventional melodies in the "central" part of the treble clef , the trumpeters were forced to back-down and add valves likewise.   So this could be another reason why valves came late to the trumpet?

However, admirers of tradition and ritual will be pleased to note that trumpeters still consider themselves a race apart from other orchestral players,  reserving the right to send deps/their students/a sick-note to all rehearsals except the last two...  and when they do turn-up, they retain the right to adorn themselves in the finery of their Guild Livery  (a leather jacket, obligatory moustache etc).  A First Trumpet will refuse to "count rests" on demarcation grounds, thinking himself too important for such tedium - and depute this task to the 2nd Trumpet, who is obliged to do it for his boss Wink

In my misspelt youth as a wannabe brass-player I had the huge privilege of meeting Christopher Monk - a man who knew more about playing, restoring and reviving historic brass than anyone else at the time (only CM could form a serious ensemble called "The London Serpent Trio" - of three serpents - the original line-up was CM, Andrew Van Der Beek and Alan Lumsden).  He had somehow acquired and restored a valved keyedtrumpet to playing order, and let me have a play on it.  The immediate problem I noted was the massive disparity of tone-quality between "closed" notes (where all the keys were shut) and "open" ones where 2-3 were open together, which made any kind of "legato" sound very ropey.  I think modern players of this instrument mostly go for a technique where you try "never" to use the "closed" notes (despite the rewarding sonorous timbre they have) and play entirely on "open" ones to produce a more even, if slightly strangulated tone across the range.  (It's also the instrument for the Hummel Concerto, the Hummel "Military" Septet, and quite a few other works).


Here's an early two-valve piston-operated trumpet from 1840, anonymous Austrian maker.
Don't be misled by what appear to be "four" valves - that's an "in/out" entrance-way for each of the two tubing extensions.
The valves are "semitone" and "tone" respectively, so this instrument couldn't play all notes in the lower end - presumably
no-one really thought of trumpets playing "down there" at the time anyhow?  Also included with the instrument
is a complete set of crooks, to pre-set its "home key" to whatever was needed for the piece in question.
The valves are operated with the two "clarinet-type" keys, and return to position using watch-maker's springs!
« Last Edit: 22:55:55, 22-10-2007 by Reiner Torheit » Logged

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John W
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« Reply #18 on: 20:41:07, 22-10-2007 »

...  and when they do turn-up, they retain the right to adorn themselves in the finery of their Guild Livery  (a leather jacket, obligatory moustache etc). 

Reiner, so the moustache doesn't get in the way of the embouchure ? Does it protect the top lip?
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richard barrett
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« Reply #19 on: 21:08:21, 22-10-2007 »

He had somehow acquired and restored a valved trumpet to playing order
Do you mean a keyed trumpet? I'm confused.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #20 on: 21:14:00, 22-10-2007 »

You'd think it would get in the way, John - but most players seem undisturbed by facial follicles Smiley  I doubt it protects the upper lip... I think it's more a part of trumpet-player dimorphism, the moustache playing a primarily cosmetic role in rituals of male display and defence of territory Wink

Quote
Do you mean a keyed trumpet? I'm confused.

You're quite right, I meant "keyed" indeed..  must have been picking the wrong kind of mushroom again Wink
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
oliver sudden
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« Reply #21 on: 22:17:44, 22-10-2007 »

I doubt it protects the upper lip... I think it's more a part of trumpet-player dimorphism, the moustache playing a primarily cosmetic role in rituals of male display and defence of territory Wink

Having a moustache does indeed protect the lip from one particular hazard: shaving!

I'm a mere clarinettist but I do avoid shaving on concert days, at least if there's something strenuous to be played. I vaguely remember Barry Tuckwell advocating facial hair (a moustache and an 'imperial' in his case) precisely because of the need to keep blades and various chemicals away from the lips...
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #22 on: 22:39:23, 22-10-2007 »

Quote
because of the need to keep blades and various chemicals away

James Blades?  Wink
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
oliver sudden
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« Reply #23 on: 22:40:21, 22-10-2007 »

Well, do YOU want him anywhere near your lips?  Undecided

 Wink
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