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Author Topic: Classical Music Periods.  (Read 1215 times)
Ian Pace
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« Reply #15 on: 23:36:58, 07-03-2007 »

All the labels are for us to put composers in some sort of time frame. The unifying theory (like in physics) is that all the time they tried to express people's emotions in music.

Well, there was a shift around Beethoven's time (a partial rather than complete shift, music on both sides of this divide extends into the other category to an extent) from music that aimed to instill emotional responses in the listeners ('Affective music') towards music that expressed the interior emotional life of its creator. All tied in with ideals of bourgeois liberation that followed on from the French Revolution. This shift occurred most prominently in the German-speaking lands; hence the composer's subjectivity, as manifested in their work, took on a quite different form. Outside of Germany, and to some extent France as well, this category of subjectivity took longer to develop.

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People need music to externize their emotions.
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Do you mean composers/performers, or listeners?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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« Reply #16 on: 08:55:14, 08-03-2007 »

Ian, It is very interesting what you say about shift in music around Beethoven's time which is connected with the French Revolution. I've never seen it put this way. It gives me a little more understanding of composers before that time.

I think it is important for all: performers, listeners and composers to externize their emotions. Listeners can relate to whatever composer is going through or what he is expressing. If I am listening in a concert emotions that perhaps were suppressed are comming out. Sometimes one can be driven to tears. It works for performers as well. After a good rehearsal I feel much lighter and on the whole better. It means that I let out my bottled up emotions out while playing. I am not talking if I am nervous and pushing toward a concert, because then anxieties about performance come forward and I block my real feelings.
Composers like Beethoven, Liszt and many after them have authobiographical music that expresses their mental state.

On the whole I am bad theoretic and bad writer, so if I am not taken seriously it is ok.
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reiner_torheit
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« Reply #17 on: 16:10:36, 08-03-2007 »

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Outside of Germany, and to some extent France as well, this category of subjectivity took longer to develop.

Without allowing my hand to creep inside my greatcoat too much, do you think it is stretching the point too far to lay some of the blame/credit for much of this ethos at Napoleon's feet?

It was, of course, Napoleon who had been Beethoven's hero and inspiration at the time up to and including the composition of the 3rd Symphony - and famously, fell from the composer's favour shortly before the completion of the work.  I don't say that Napoleon was the inspiration for "Romanticism", but rather the reverse - that he was its product.  Yes, yes, Mozart and Da Ponte jested about an overturn of the social order...  but they didn't actually do it,  they just suggested the unthinkable.  And then, in 1789, the unthinkable actually occurred. 

It really seems too great a coincidence that the birth of "Romanticism" - of people taking their affairs into their own hands rather than trusting to some Heavenly Lord or Earthly Prince to resolve matters - coincided exactly with the dates of the French Revolution. Germany was in some ways the ultimate beneficiary of the Revolution, because it gained the step-forward in thinking and freedom from conventionalised theories of power,  without having to suffer the more wretched actualities of the fallout from regicide.  Princelings in Germany watched with horror as their French peers went to the guillotine - and wondered what strategy might best save them from a similar fate...  some controlled liberalisation, or the gloved fist?   It was the first step towards what would ultimately result in German unification.

Do you think though, Ian, that the relative absence of "Romantic" art-forms in France was in fact due to the more prosaic reasons of political control of the subsequent political regimes which governed France?    For example, concerts, opera and ballet immediately ceased in Revolutionary France due to the laws on Public Gatherings, which prevented them occurring.  The entire "French Culture Industry" (who were not only French, but Italians, Austrians and Germans working in France) moved abroad in search of work...  a great many of them to England, believing it would "all blow over soon".  (Long ago I did some research that threw-up the story that the Prince Of Wales had been recruited as the sponsor for a tour by Mozart to London, to stage the British premiere of The Marriage Of Figaro - 70% of the rest of the Vienna cast turned-out to be there anyhow as a result of fleeing from Paris, and Da Ponte was there too).

In a bizarre (but typically British!) way, Britain's failure to buy into the ethos of Romanticism until much later might almost be because Britain became home for the refugees from Revolution - and the pro-Bourbon pro-Monarchist philosophies they brought with them.  As usual, Britain was fashionably old-fashioned in its tastes :-)
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« Reply #18 on: 16:29:29, 08-03-2007 »

Fascinating theory, Reiner. And I wouldn't dare to disagree with it, but how do you explain away Britain's failure to to develop Romanticism much earlier when we first came up with the idea of lopping off king's heads and giving power to "commoners" (some hundred years before the French tried it)?


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reiner_torheit
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« Reply #19 on: 18:09:39, 08-03-2007 »

A good point, IRF - to which I don't have a good answer!  I am not sure that the notion of political ideas seeping through into the Arts had taken root at the time?   Although let's remember that it was not emotionally-inspired "Romantics" who lopped-off Charles I's head - but puritans utterly opposed to such "baubles" Smiley   If anything, I'd be looking for a move towards a more austere musical style in the post-Carolingian period?
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #20 on: 18:55:18, 08-03-2007 »

This is fascinating.  But using artificial titles for periods and styles is standard practice for all art forms.  Any comment on how the musical periods relate to other art forms?

The term "classical" (meaning Mozart, Haydn and possibly Beethoven) seems unique for music.  A popular style for decorative arts and architecture in the post Revolutionary period was Grecian revival, which is undoubtedly "classical" in one sense of the term.  As far as I can make out it was favoured by both the heirs of the French and American revolutions (Washington DC designed by a French architect)  and by their opponents.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #21 on: 21:10:44, 08-03-2007 »

Need to think more about your fascinating points, Reiner, especially the reasons that type of romanticism maybe didn't develop in the same way in France - Dahlhaus is extremely good on this type of subject. There was a huge shift on the operatic stage, from the older pre-revolutionary opera seria, through post-revolutionary bombast from Grétry, Méhul and so on, to the later, highly melodramatic grand opera of Auber, Meyerbeer, Halévy, from about the 1830s onwards. By this time opera had become hugely subservient to commerce (though still required subsidy) and appealed to the tastes of the newly powerful bourgeoisie, quite different to those of the older aristocratic opera patrons. But this was all very different to Beethovenian ideals, which it could be argued were only sustainable in the immediate aftermath of revolutionary times, before the bourgeoisie became a reactionary class and sought to deny the same rights to the proletariat that they themselves had achieved through overthrowing the aristocracy. Germany's unusual history and route towards nationhood may also be an important factor in this context. But I'm just vaguely thinking aloud at the moment. Maybe a parallel could be made with the explosion of creative activity immediately after 1917 in the Soviet Union, in music at the behest of the Association of Soviet Musicians (though I know some, including Taruskin, argue that they were not really the influential group, compared to RAPM), before the inheritors of the revolution themselves became a reactionary class?

As regards Britain, I think to this day the nation has not really yet come to terms with romanticism and with Beethoven; nor has it really overcome vestiges of feudal culture.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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« Reply #22 on: 21:57:02, 08-03-2007 »

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The term "classical" (meaning Mozart, Haydn and possibly Beethoven) seems unique for music

I suppose this shouldn't be entirely surprising, Don B, as music travels much more easily, due to its freedom from linguistic dependence, than literature does.  I may be wrong here, but isn't the period of that coincides with Mozart and Haydn in English Literarture known as the "Augustan" period?  This is obviously a term which applies only to literature in England - the Germans use something else entirely.

However, "Romanticism" was a more Europe-wide movement, and Germans would point to Goethe's "Werther" (1774!) as one of the first proto-Romantic, if not fully "Romantic" texts.  Even here in England, there's general agreement that Wordsworth and Coleridge's "Lyrical Ballads" (1798) was a mould-breaking work that flung-aside the Augustan period irrevocably.  A youthful Shelley at Oxford contrived to get himself expelled from the University for penning the Gothic novel "Zastrozzi",  although it might have been his pamphlet "On the Necessity Of Atheism" (1811), and another one advocating the abolition of the monarchy which finally twitched the Master's fury.

As I have already said, if we're looking for Romanticism in Music, I'd say that FIDELIO is the place to look.  The scene in which "Fidelio" and Rocco are digging their way through the covered opening to the door of Florestan's cell is clearly "Romantic" to me... and written, ehem, in 1806  Wink

Ian, very interesting points about Mehul and Co.  I sometimes wonder if what Mozart was doing outside the sphere of opera seria - and his motivation for working for Schikanaeder "on tick" - was to sidestep the opera seria conventions entirely, and found a more realistic form of Germanic opera that wasn't so hidebound by conventions?   Interestingly, FIDELIO is also - a Singspiel :-)   

On British opera Romanticism...  rather unfairly (since his music is entirely unrecorded and only available in a few archives) I also press-on with my campaign to have English composer Stephen Storace recognised as our very own proto-romantic composer.  Have a look at the last page (there are five pages in this long "Act III" aria) written for his sister to perform in "The Siege Of Belgrade" (1791).  The scene at this point is that Lilla, a Serbian peasant girl, has escaped from being kidnapped at the Turkish Army's camp, and is running through the enemy lines towards the smoke-clouds "billowing" over "long-lost home", Belgrade.  It's a "female heroine saves the day" opera, she's taking on the entire Turkish Army single-handed, and then she sings this...  (It's marked "Allegro", and you have to imagine a Beethovenian orchestration - look at the sustained fortissimo top Bb with horn-calls underneath it!  And then "just when you think it's all over" she clunks into a Callas-style chest-register to belt-out that low Db (4th system, 1st bar) that leads into the double-octave scale to the top c's.  I'd imagine the horn-calls are rocking Eb-Bb in the last six bars, but of course that's just my speculation :-)

(Storace had clear pro-revolutionary leanings, and was visiting Republican France throughout the 1790s until his death (aged 32) in 1796. He also helped to circumvent a censor's ban on a stage adaptation of Godwin's 1794 "rage against the establishment" novel "Caleb Williams" by converting it into an "opera", under the title "The Iron Chest" (in reality, a play with extensive musical numbers). Unfortunately the stage script of what was performed is lost, although Storace's musical numbers survive - like all his works, in piano-score only.)
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #23 on: 22:09:42, 08-03-2007 »

reiner

Augustan is used for the English literature of the reign of Queen Anne and a bit beyond, ie 1702 to 1714, associated with my favourite poet, Alexander Pope.  (Set by Schubert, surprisingly, and Handel in Acis and Galatea.)  So this is a fair bit earlier than the "classical" period for music.

As you said way back, it shows the artificiality of these period descriptions.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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