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Author Topic: The bass clef and musical notation  (Read 1726 times)
time_is_now
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« Reply #30 on: 11:27:42, 03-05-2007 »

I'm actually a trombonist (occasionally, these days like your playing mode I guess). The computer in the other place selected my monicker.
How did it do that?! Huh

Quote
You might recall the Horniman Museum in SE London which is a mile or 2 from my bunker
Oh, your bunker must be near my bunker then ... Smiley
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
smittims
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« Reply #31 on: 12:04:07, 03-05-2007 »

The discussion on how important it is for students to know the Bass clef mademerealise how much things must have changed since my day.

When I went for tests and interviews at Magdalen College Oxford I was expected to sight read at the piano a passage written on three staves,two of which were the  mezzo-soprano clef and the tenor clef. Owing to nervousness (several people  were walking about the room talking) and lack of experience at playing the piano ,I misread the mezzo-soprano for an alto clef. The person who had set me the test leaned over and very cruelly,I thought,banged out a few discords to demonstrate my mistake. 

I always rememnber this when I see him described toay as a much loved figure,and think how sad it was that he should choose to give me this lasting impression of him and his university. Presumably the thought as I was only a schoolboy I wasn't worth being polite to. I suppose in a way it was a lesson in life if not in music.
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Reiner Torheit
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WWW
« Reply #32 on: 14:52:09, 03-05-2007 »

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Reiner, I reckon the real obstacle to period-instrument Romantic opera isn't the instruments but the singers!

I'd agree and go further - I think they are the problem with all performances of all operas Smiley   Graupner was obviously a very sensible man - writing arias for the chalumeau instead  Tongue

I sympathise entirely with you, Smittims, although it sounds like you were well in advance of me on this stuff.  I have always been a rotten pianist, so Keyboard Harmony remained my weakest subject, and it was a compulsory module.  I even opted to take the exam at the end of my second year at Univ, on the basis that no improvement was likely during a further year, and it would just distract me from things in which I might score better marks?  I was doing the obligatory "Palestrina in four clefs", and got to the end of the first "Kyrie"...  I took a second to glance up, and I saw Erik Levi (who now reviews cds in Gramophone etc) banging his head on the desk...   I scraped a pass-mark on the basis of my figured-bass realisation and improvised piano accompaniment.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
trained-pianist
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« Reply #33 on: 17:21:56, 03-05-2007 »

smittims, music business make people irritable. One should not enter music degree if one is too sensitive. A musician of international standing said exactly this phrase to me.
Where do sensitive people should go, business school? This has nothing to do with cleffs.
I only know two cleffs and I was not expected to know more because I was a pianist. I was expected to practice all free time.
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increpatio
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« Reply #34 on: 17:34:06, 03-05-2007 »

I only know two cleffs and I was not expected to know more because I was a pianist. I was expected to practice all free time.

Yes; I expect this is the main thing; it's maybe not a big loss to not be able to read a bass clef fluently, but one really should have something to show for one's time!
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #35 on: 17:38:15, 03-05-2007 »

Pianists know two cleffs. Violinists know one (I suppose).
But on the whole I found many musicians (professional) have very narrow interests. The young aspiring musicians (performers) has to practice like slaves.
I was never aspiring musician and I am very narrow (in my knowledge of music).
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marbleflugel
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« Reply #36 on: 10:20:58, 04-05-2007 »

I'm actually a trombonist (occasionally, these days like your playing mode I guess). The computer in the other place selected my monicker.
How did it do that?! Huh

It gave a default selection of names if the one entered wasnt available, and mf was the one that worked. Nowadays I

presume everyone there, like Patrick McGooghan in The Prisoner ,is 'No.6'.

Quote
You might recall the Horniman Museum in SE London which is a mile or 2 from my bunker
Oh, your bunker must be near my bunker then ... Smiley

How about going for a beer sometime then? (I had also been wondering when the next 'committee meeting' was)
Drop me a note if this sounds like a plan.
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Arnold Brown
David_Underdown
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« Reply #37 on: 13:12:51, 04-05-2007 »

I seem to remember hearing that it was a mis-transcription from soprano clef which lead to the introduction fo the high-phrase at the end of "Silent Night", the tune as sung in the UK and USA is not what is known in Germany and Austria.

reiner, when reading Bb parts as tenor clef, you must also remember to adjust key signature and accidentals appropriately.  A similar trick also works fro reading Eb parts as bass clef, as when at school the trombone parts of something we were doing had disappeared so the music teacher gave me the baritone sax version of the part instead.

Following on from tp's comment on the number of clefs different instrumentalists may require fluency in, trombonists of a reasonable standard need bass, tenor and (occassionally) alto - either to play alto trombone parts on the tenor or because some composers e.g. Shostakovich wrote the first trombone part in alto clef for reasons best known to themselves - and some acquaintance with playing from Bb treble clef parts also comes in handy from time to time.  Fortunately the only time I really needed the alto clef, I noticed that it wasn't actually in tenor clef during my own private practie, rather than during the first orchestral rehearsal...

Cellists I suppose need bass, tenor and treble.

I have never understood why, of ll bras band instrumetns, the bass trombone plays from bass clef at concert pitch?
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--
David
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« Reply #38 on: 19:56:17, 04-05-2007 »

I often thought about approximation in notating music (no matter what cleff one is reading in).
I don't know if this topic belongs to the thread.
I often heard musicians talk about this fact of approximation in notation.
For example, one can not specify rubato, some things are understood. I personally have many problems with interpretation especially if I don't know the piece.

The tempo is very important. If one knows what tempo it should be played in one can undrestand the mood better.
Often I err on the slow side. Because it is difficult to play some music I can not imagine how fast it should go.
Ocasionally I err on the fast side (play the piece faster than it should).

I think that piano is difficult in this way compare to for example wind instruments. Wind instruments can only play that slow after which it is impossible for them to breath.

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