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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #15 on: 11:46:53, 13-02-2007 » |
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I can't take a very big, deep voice in Winterreise. It seems out of balance with the delicacy and fragility of the songs; much as I admire John T (and I do) I wouldn't go myself.
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eruanto
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« Reply #16 on: 22:55:00, 13-02-2007 » |
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i just got back from the performance at SJSS. i would say that only sometimes did Tomlinson produce too big a sound (but don't trust me - i'm running on one ear at the mo!). I was doubtful about the undoubted transpositions that would have to be done, but they made the songs all the more delicious (particularly Das Wirtshaus in D major *drools*)
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #17 on: 23:07:53, 13-02-2007 » |
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I've got a double CD set of Hotter's and Schorr's recordings, and I have to say I was, after initial misgivings, converted to the darker keys (and voices). But I still like Pears - and his Dichterliebe is excellent too (same LP box on original release)
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #18 on: 21:18:01, 14-02-2007 » |
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Inspired by this thread I have loaded up the Matthias Gorne/Stephen Johnson Hyperion Winterreise on to my ipod. I bought it about ten years ago ("Matthias Gorne is thirty years old" says the booklet. He must be over the hill by now.) Lieder is an area I have always thought I can SEE why people love it, but it never moves me at gut level. I suspect it is to do with understanding the words. Some troll on the R3 MB moaned about too many lieder on R3, but I fear if you don't understand every word, you cannot expect to appreciate the genre. Gorne sees to have a very lovely sound for a bass. I hope to get to know this work better in the near future. Thank you for inspiring me to do so.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #19 on: 21:27:44, 14-02-2007 » |
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My suppelmentary question, which I forgot in my last post, is why people find this work so life affirming, when the subject and the setting are so depressing? Any comments?
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #20 on: 21:39:41, 14-02-2007 » |
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Sometimes it's just good to know that someone's got it worse than you.
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #21 on: 22:21:49, 14-02-2007 » |
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Re understanding the texts - I don't speak German, but with a bit of help from various books (Fischer-Dieskau Book of Lieder, Penguin Book of Lieder and Lieder Line by Line) and LP sleeves/ CD booklets I find I enough of a grasp to understand what is going on - then, with a really communicative singer, suddenly the MEANING of the words - and the emotion behind them - comes across, illuminating some wonderful music. Have a look at the Mahler thread that's running at the moment for discussion of some great performances of his songs too.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #22 on: 22:31:27, 14-02-2007 » |
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I couldn't understand much German when I started listening to Winterreise - I live there now so that's another journey it's accompanied me on. They're heavy words. Indeed sometimes they're even a bit melodramatic - but the music almost never is, which I think is part of it. By the way, anyone ever wondered what those Nebensonnen are? (Thanks to Richard Barrett for passing me this one.) |
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Soundwave
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« Reply #23 on: 22:35:44, 14-02-2007 » |
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The only Hotter Winterreise songs I have are Einsamkeit and Die Post. They're on a DGM 78rpm recorded during the war (1942/1943) and given to me by Michael Raucheisen his accompanist who also encouraged me to study lieder. The singing is fairly light for a bass. I've not heard Tomlinson in Winterreise. Of course, it is only too easy for a bass to sound heavy, lugubrious and a little miserable in these songs and, personally, I prefer a baritone voice for them. As a tenor I felt that they were not really for a tenor voice either. Cheers
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Ho! I may be old yet I am still lusty
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Catherine
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« Reply #24 on: 00:04:05, 15-02-2007 » |
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"By the way, anyone ever wondered what those Nebensonnen are?" - oliver sudden
That's reminded me; what is the special significance of the Lindenbaum? Does anyone know? There's a song in Winterreise "Der Lindenbaum", and it's mentioned in the final song of Mahler's Lieder eines fahrenden gesellen "Auf der Strasse steht ein Lindenbaum,
Da hab' ich zum ersten Mal im Schlaf geruht!...".
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #25 on: 00:11:25, 15-02-2007 » |
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I can't do much better than to point you at the wikipedia article... They don't mention that it's a lime-blossom tea into which Proust's narrator dunks his madeleine though. At least I can send you that insight all by myself! |
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operacat
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« Reply #27 on: 15:39:57, 17-02-2007 » |
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I would go for Fischer-Dieskau. Sadly, and, no doubt, the fault is mine, I have never been able to stand Peter Pears voice. Cheers  No, I've always had a problem with Pears as well....do we just have a blind ( er..deaf?) spot, or what? We discussed this quite often on the old R3 board...we'll never reach a conclusion, it's just - some of us like him, some of us don't! And do I need to say who I think is the best performer of WINTERREISE?  |
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nature abhors a vacuum - but not as much as cats do.
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operacat
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« Reply #28 on: 15:41:57, 17-02-2007 » |
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John Tomlinson is singing Winterreise at St John's, Smith Square tonight (am I right in thinking that this is why it featured on In Tune late last week?). I haven't yet decided whether to go: I'm a big fan of John Tom, but I'm not convinced that Winterreise is suitable repertoire for him. Any views?
Yes, I heard the interview with him on In Tune, it was interesting, fascinating to hear it sung by a bass, actually! It isn't the usual voice, and it does show a different perspective on the songs - Tomlinson says that a bass tends to emphasise different nuances. Wasn't able to go to the recital though! |
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nature abhors a vacuum - but not as much as cats do.
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operacat
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« Reply #29 on: 15:46:49, 17-02-2007 » |
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nature abhors a vacuum - but not as much as cats do.
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