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Author Topic: The Passions of Vaughan Williams  (Read 2148 times)
Descombes
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« Reply #45 on: 19:12:53, 29-05-2008 »

At last I've found time to watch the VW programme. I suppose I would go along with most of what's been said already: it was reasonably interesting and not as sensational as the publicity suggested. (Isn't it a sign of the times that the BBC has to put out trailers like that? -  Supposedly to pull in the "floating audience" - something which, I think, disappeared with the advent of multi-channel TV.)

I thought two things were overdone:
1  There was far too much jumping from one interview to another, presumably to show agreement over a certain point. These snippets were often only a couple of words. The technique became very irritating!
2  Another technique which was overdone: watching people reacting to a recording of the music! People often look silly when listening to music and these were not exceptions. There is a limit to the number of times one can watch an elderly lady listening, going dewy-eyed and saying "What a wonderful, wonderful tune"!

Without doubt, if asked to rank the three VW films I have watched recently (including the Ken Russell programme, supplied by Stanley), the order would be:
1  Russell
2  Palmer
3  Birdcut
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Stanley Stewart
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« Reply #46 on: 09:35:06, 30-05-2008 »

 I found John Bridcut's programme a solid bit of craftsmanship and certainly a relief after the Radio Times blurb which wrote about 'a sizzling documentary revealing Ralph the impulsive heartbreaker...'
Reminded me of a pleasant evening at the theatre which, try as I may, I cannot clearly recall a week later.    With a duration of 90 minutes, I expected a bit more from the passion of the director and this is why I'd always give precedence to Russell or Palmer at 55 mins and 2hrs 25 mins respectively.
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litpage
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« Reply #47 on: 03:42:10, 23-06-2008 »

I came across this thread by accident this evening and found it quite interesting; thanks to all those who participated.

Does anyone know if the Bridcutt film will be released anytime soon on DVD? 

Another question: I wonder why the BBC doesn't release all the symphonies of RVW on DVD, especially during this anniversary year.  Surely there must be plenty of archival performances to choose from, even if the BBC cannot afford to make new televised recordings.  Tony Palmer's new film about RVW contains a splendid segment showing Sir Adrian Boult conducting a small portion of the Fifth Symphony.  That whole performance must be in the archives, along with plenty of other, similar performances.  Yet the only complete recording of a VW symphony released so far on DVD is of the Eighth symphony -- a wonderful but atypical work.

In any case, thanks for your stimulating postings; wish I had found them sooner!
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #48 on: 08:29:57, 23-06-2008 »

Sadly, the immediate answer is that they almost certainly have never had a complete video cycle, and much of what they may once have had has long since been lost, often, tragically, just dumped in a skip. The long-awaited appearance of the Britten-Pears archive recordings on DVD this month bears witness to this: these were arguably National Treasures which should have been preserved for posterity, but the BBC were unable to locate them: it took painstaking research on the part of Decca staff to locate the material, some of it completely mislabelled.

It's also questionable whether what they still might have would be of high enough quality: the great performances of the past (for example a Proms fourth in the mid-sixties, conducted by Boult, which I attended and later saw televised) would probably be passed over even if they were still to exist because they were monaural and monochrome: not all the more recent performances at the Proms, even if televised, have been particularly brilliant.

Do televised concerts sell particularly well, in any case? Whilst I've argued over at TOP (The Other Place, i.e. the BBC board) within the last twenty-four hours that the Shostakovich symphonies gain from experiencing their visual aspect, which seems to have been part of the composer's overall conception: but unless a DVD is issued with multi-angle choice of vision, then you're lumbered with seeing what the director decides is important, which isn't always what you want to see.

So, in brief, there's much less available material than you probably imagine, and the chances of fashioning a commercially viable RVW symphony cycle are probably zero. Sorry. 
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time_is_now
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« Reply #49 on: 15:05:40, 23-06-2008 »

I've argued over at TOP (The Other Place, i.e. the BBC board) within the last twenty-four hours that the Shostakovich symphonies gain from experiencing their visual aspect, which seems to have been part of the composer's overall conception
That's very interesting, R: any chance of a link?
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Stanley Stewart
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« Reply #50 on: 15:11:16, 23-06-2008 »

 It is only a matter of weeks since I did an off-air video/DVD transfer of Shostakovitch's 6th and 9th symphonies, transmitted on 19 August 1995, to mark the twentieth anniversary of the composer's death.  Leonard Bernstein had conducted the VPO concert 'live' in 1988 at the Musikverein.   A treat, too, to see his eloquent illustrated introduction to the 9th.    Pre-digital, of course, but both sound and picture have been enhanced by transfer to DVD.  Not too much angst by 'Lenny' but his commitment was total.
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litpage
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« Reply #51 on: 17:02:35, 23-06-2008 »



"Do televised concerts sell particularly well, in any case?"

Thanks for the thoughtful response!  I've read that classical DVDs are selling surprisingly well, and more and more of them seem to be being issued.  There's a complete cycle of the Nielsen symphonies, and there are an astonishing number of DVDs of Bruckner and Mahler out there, not to mention the standards (Beethoven, Brahms, Mozart, etc.).  As an American, I'm surprised that the BBC, one of the greatest broadcasting companies in the world (we have nothing like it), has never issued a single RVW DVD.  I did learn last night that a DVD of RVW's opera Riders to the Sea is due out in August, so there is some reason to hope that eventually some of the symphonies will be issued.  I would love to see all the Shostakovich and RVW symphonies on DVD.

By the way, there is a DVD of the Shostakovich 10th, conducted by Kogan (the son, not the father) that is a really splendid example of what can be done with a DVD of a concert performance.  The subtitled, moment-by-moment commentary is fascinating.



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Ron Dough
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« Reply #52 on: 17:37:10, 23-06-2008 »

I've argued over at TOP (The Other Place, i.e. the BBC board) within the last twenty-four hours that the Shostakovich symphonies gain from experiencing their visual aspect, which seems to have been part of the composer's overall conception
That's very interesting, R: any chance of a link?

Perhaps 'argued' is not quite the right word, but a pointer, at least.  Wink

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F7497566?thread=5572202&skip=0&show=20

(Page 2, message 38 in reply to Smin's message 37, which makes a single point on the subject which I considered worthy of expansion. Since TV and video directors tend to eschew long-shots of the entire ensemble, these very powerful moments of section unanimity tend to be lost: often the same problem arises in the polyrhythmic section of Le Sacre. As each new pulse arrives, the cameras concentrate solely upon its prime participants, thereby losing the visual counterpoint of the competing rhythms entirely.)
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martle
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« Reply #53 on: 19:30:35, 23-06-2008 »

I think composers are aware of the visual impact of performance more often than not, or they should be. The example smin gives there is a good one: there's something very powerful about an entire string section in rhythmic unison using identical bowings (multiple examples in the Rite, of course - and Mars from The Planets, recently witnessed by several board members, gives a similar effect a number of times). And the visual toybox that is an orchestral percussion section has long been exploited of course. I've often planned unexpected divisions between hands in piano music too, especially if it's making or underpinning a musical point. Webern does that too (sometimes bizarre hand-crossings) in order to keep a particular 'row' in the same hand.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #54 on: 19:38:37, 23-06-2008 »

Mars from The Planets, recently witnessed by several board members, gives a similar effect a number of times
I'm afraid that, as the Member Barrett can confirm, 'witnessed' is only partially accurate in the case of the Member Now.
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« Reply #55 on: 16:36:35, 04-08-2008 »

If anyone was wondering whether to splash out on the EMI RVW Collector's Edition, which is pretty fair value at around £40, then a visit to Amazon.fr might sway you: they're offering it for just under €30, which, even by the time tax has been added, works out at around three-quarters of the UK price including delivery, or a pound per disc. I'm aware that Bryn mentions then from time to time, but they're always worth a parallel check: some opera DVDs in particular seem much cheaper than from the UK or USA divisions.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #56 on: 18:34:02, 04-08-2008 »

some opera DVDs in particular seem much cheaper than from the UK or USA divisions.

Would there be any "region" conflicts likely if purchased from that source?  I have a pile of things lined-up in my shopping basket to purchase sometime next week - easily enough to make the delivery cost worthwhile Smiley   What tax would there be - surely it's an EU country with no tariffs due (for delivery to UK, where I'll be)?  Or is that just naive Guardian-reader jabber? Wink
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« Reply #57 on: 18:59:27, 04-08-2008 »

They normally tell you whether the DVDs are limited to regions, and the tax isn't always quoted, especially if it's from third-party sellers, so it's added on during the check-out process. Even so, I found something that I'd been after for a while - the very strange Tony Palmer film of Britten's Death in Venice -  and something I was unaware of (an Aix-en-Provence Turn of the Screw) which together worked out at less than £20, which was less than if I'd bought them from here.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #58 on: 19:09:40, 04-08-2008 »

Ta!  I shall give my current basketful the Amazon.Fr price-test, and see how much might be worth buying in euros!  But I'll wait until I reach Foggy Albion to do so...  the idea of an Englishman ordering from a French site from a Moscow IP-address, and then specifying London delivery, might send their cc fraud-protection into tailspin Wink
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
time_is_now
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« Reply #59 on: 19:14:20, 04-08-2008 »

an Aix-en-Provence Turn of the Screw
The one conducted by Daniel Harding (can't remember the cast). That's supposed to be excellent, Ron: is it? I haven't seen it myself, though would like to.

On the rare occasions I've ordered from amazon.fr I've sometimes been frustrated at the last moment before check-out by a refusal to deliver to a UK address. I've never quite worked out the pattern to this, although when you list items for sale as a private seller on amazon.co.uk you have to specify whether you're willing to post things abroad, so perhaps it's a version of the same principle.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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