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Author Topic: Great Musicians +  (Read 731 times)
Eruanto
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« Reply #15 on: 15:02:34, 19-10-2008 »

Friday night was the Nupen programme on Ashkenazy. I watched it last night. There was a good mix of professional - filmed concerts, recording sessions etc. - and personal - showing the camera round his empty Icelandic house. Particularly interesting were Ashkenazy's comments about the troubles he faced as a Russian playing in the west - no matter how well he might have played, a critic (seeing the Russian credentials) would immediately say 'this person can't play Beethoven'. Of course he objected to this.

"Music is the highest expression of the human mind. I'm not ashamed to say it, because I know that Beethoven thought so too."

A very inspiring film.
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"It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set"
brassbandmaestro
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The ties that bind


« Reply #16 on: 10:35:32, 22-10-2008 »

Sometime ago at church, the substitute organist played some Pachelbel as it turned out. He was saying that there is a lot of organ music by this composer which is totally ignored. It sounded first rate to me.
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...trj...
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Awanturnik


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« Reply #17 on: 13:53:36, 22-10-2008 »

Pachelbel, while being a quite interesting composer in many ways, didn't even write the Canon in D which is his "one hit"

Really? A well-known music dictionary may need updating if so ...
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Robert Dahm
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« Reply #18 on: 14:28:04, 22-10-2008 »

"one work wonders" in much the same way as composers like Boccherini, and Pachelbel?

Pachelbel, while being a quite interesting composer in many ways, didn't even write the Canon in D which is his "one hit", nor was it written (probably by Heinrich Biber) for string orchestra but for 3 solo violins and continuo, and the intended tempo is probably about three times as fast as it's usually played. How did all that happen I wonder?

I heard a performance of it in this manner on the radio just the other day. What a revelation! It's still hardly a masterpiece, but I couldn't believe how, well, pleasant it was.

And yes, please tell us more about its being written by Biber. Is it purported to be very early (say, from his Kromeriz days)? It certainly doesn't sound much like any of the Biber we tend to associate more directly with him. The style of invention over the ground is far less 'free' (ie: more tied to said ground) than in the sonatas of 1681, the Rosary Sonatas, or the Harmonia artificiosa ariosa.
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #19 on: 20:28:01, 22-10-2008 »

"one work wonders" in much the same way as composers like Boccherini, and Pachelbel?

Pachelbel, while being a quite interesting composer in many ways, didn't even write the Canon in D which is his "one hit", nor was it written (probably by Heinrich Biber) for string orchestra but for 3 solo violins and continuo, and the intended tempo is probably about three times as fast as it's usually played. How did all that happen I wonder?

I heard a performance of it in this manner on the radio just the other day. What a revelation! It's still hardly a masterpiece, but I couldn't believe how, well, pleasant it was.

And yes, please tell us more about its being written by Biber. Is it purported to be very early (say, from his Kromeriz days)? It certainly doesn't sound much like any of the Biber we tend to associate more directly with him. The style of invention over the ground is far less 'free' (ie: more tied to said ground) than in the sonatas of 1681, the Rosary Sonatas, or the Harmonia artificiosa ariosa.

Yes, more information please!!  I wouldn't have thought it was by Biber myself.  Perhaps the Gigue has a Biberesque brio about it, but not enough to convince me he wrote it.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #20 on: 21:21:05, 22-10-2008 »

The Biber conjecture was made (and I can't any longer find where, I'm afraid, nor have I been able to track it down today) by Reinhard Goebel. What I can remember is that RG said (a) there's no autograph of the piece, only an attribution which might be dodgy, (b) canon at the unison isn't a feature of Pachelbel's other work whereas it happens relatively often in Biber, and (c) other stuff. Sorry, that's the best I can do.
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #21 on: 01:14:48, 23-10-2008 »

Hmmm...  I think Herr Goebel has a Biber in his bonnet (perfectly understandable, I think most baroque violinists do at some point, I know I do).

There is an ease about the C&G, both in character and playability, that doesn't mesh well with Biber's style.  Biber may well have written canons in unison, but the ones I know are very different from the one in question.  Biber intersperses rests in the line to allow individual voices to poke out every now and then, usually with some sort of bravura flourish.  He also mixes up his long sets of variations with a slower moment, or a faster moment, or a moment in triple time, or something contrasting like that.  His passagework is usually quite tricky while still lying very well in the left hand.  It's unusual not to see any double-stopping in his works.  He makes tremendous demands on the right hand, asking for rapid bow movements in passagework or on single notes as a shimmering sort of ornament, or staccato notes under slurs, arpeggiations, stuff like that.

None of these things feature in the "Pachelbel" Canon.  The Gigue may be closer to his style, but I can't help thinking Biber would have made it more complicated somehow, a little more of a struggle, and about ten times as much fun.

Thinking geographically, I expect Biber would have been familiar with the early 17th century Italian strain of works for three violins - and of course Schmeltzer wrote a piece for that combination that Biber must have known.  It's surprising that such an avid and virtuosic violinist didn't seem to turn his hand to that combination.  But Pachelbel did study in Vienna for a while, so would have had the chance to become more familiar than most Germans with early Italian repertoire (Austro-Hungary being similarly Catholic, and there having been many political marriages/alliances between them and various Italian states).  And the Germans were also writing works for three violins in the mid 17th century, most of which have been lost.

Hmm.  If you do find where Reinhard Goebel made this conjecture, Richard, I hope you'll share it with us.  I'd like to know more about "(c) other stuff."  And I have a particular interest in works for 3 fiddles - I'm hoping to start a group based around it (hopefully more on that anon).
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brassbandmaestro
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« Reply #22 on: 08:20:27, 23-10-2008 »

Most interesting read there Strina. Thank you for that. What about the famous Toccata & Fugue in D minor, BWV565, JSB? There have been a lot said about the authenticity of the composer there?
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rauschwerk
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« Reply #23 on: 08:51:02, 23-10-2008 »

Sometime ago at church, the substitute organist played some Pachelbel as it turned out. He was saying that there is a lot of organ music by this composer which is totally ignored. It sounded first rate to me.

Once, in the dear, dead days beyond recall, R3 did a series entirely devoted to the organ music of Pachelbel. It served only to confirm my impression (formed by hearing the Canon played too slowly) that Herr P. was one of the most boring composers who ever lived. Then I heard some of his motets (particularly Jauchzet dem Herrn) and realised that my judgment had been hasty.
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...trj...
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« Reply #24 on: 09:01:20, 23-10-2008 »

The Biber conjecture was made (and I can't any longer find where, I'm afraid, nor have I been able to track it down today) by Reinhard Goebel. What I can remember is that RG said (a) there's no autograph of the piece, only an attribution which might be dodgy, (b) canon at the unison isn't a feature of Pachelbel's other work whereas it happens relatively often in Biber, and (c) other stuff. Sorry, that's the best I can do.

Thanks Richard - I'll look into Herr Goebel's work.
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Robert Dahm
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« Reply #25 on: 12:03:43, 23-10-2008 »

It seems such a strange thing to have this idea coming from somebody who has played so much Biber. I'd be very much interested in further exploring the reasoning behind it.
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Turfan Fragment
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Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #26 on: 15:51:18, 23-10-2008 »

Pachelbel duly seconded as an interesting composer! Not enough to merit a thread of his own IMO, but still.

Last week I read through his 95 Fugues on the Magnificat, and was only a little exhausted at the end. Some very kooky subjects (albeit one particularly kooky one 'stolen' from Luigi Battiferri)
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #27 on: 15:56:18, 23-10-2008 »

The early 17th century Italian strain of works for three violins -
Easily my favorite genre!  Wink

Does this include Biagio Marini?
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #28 on: 17:21:06, 23-10-2008 »

The early 17th century Italian strain of works for three violins -
Easily my favorite genre!  Wink

Does this include Biagio Marini?

Oh yes, and Buonamente, Fontana, Gabrieli (Giovanni), Uccellini... and another group of slightly later composers based around Naples.  Not to mention all the English ones, the German ones (most of whose works are now lost), and some surprisingly late French ones.

It was a much more popular combination than we realise now.  Trio sonatas were more common, and the string quartet eventually obliterated both the continuo element and the idea of a group with three of the same voice.  But there is a lot still out there (and even more that's been lost, destroyed, or perhaps not even discovered yet).  My pet project (when I can overcome my inherent laziness, and when I'm not running around trying to earn a living) is to find as much of it as possible... and get together a group to play it!
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richard barrett
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« Reply #29 on: 20:41:52, 23-10-2008 »

That sounds like an excellent idea. The Gabrieli is a favourite of mine (and possibly the earliest piece in this repertoire, do you think?), and I do like all the others you and the Turfman mention too. And there's Purcell's Three Parts on a Ground as well, his most beautiful piece of instrumental music IMHO.
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