|
oliver sudden
|
 |
« Reply #60 on: 13:00:57, 02-01-2008 » |
|
May I also mention Berlioz' Enfance du Christ?
As long as you don't pronounce the -st, yes!  Un pédant écrit : Normally in fact we are pronouncing the -st when we are saying Christ on its own and it is when we are pronouncing Jésus-Christ that the -st it is silent... ...hop, je prends mon manteau... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
C Dish
|
|
« Reply #61 on: 13:31:38, 02-01-2008 » |
|
May I also mention Berlioz' Enfance du Christ?
As long as you don't pronounce the -st, yes! Actually, I'm surprised you heard me. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
inert fig here
|
|
|
|
time_is_now
|
|
« Reply #62 on: 13:36:50, 02-01-2008 » |
|
Normally in fact we are pronouncing the -st when we are saying Christ on its own and it is when we are pronouncing Jésus-Christ that the -st it is silent... Damn, and there was me thinking it was the other way round.  (You see, I was in fact waiting for someone to say 'eh?' so I could come in and explain how the -st is silent in L'Enfance du ... but not in La Nativité de ....) |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
|
|
|
|
autoharp
|
|
« Reply #63 on: 13:51:36, 02-01-2008 » |
|
La Nativite du . . ? (can't do the accent)
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
oliver sudden
|
|
« Reply #64 on: 13:55:05, 02-01-2008 » |
|
Well if it's La Nativité du Seigneur then the -st's silent because there is no -st.
Stop me if I'm going too fast.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
time_is_now
|
|
« Reply #65 on: 13:55:23, 02-01-2008 » |
|
No, ... de Notre-Seigneur Jésus-Christ. That was the point! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
|
|
|
|
oliver sudden
|
|
« Reply #66 on: 14:06:07, 02-01-2008 » |
|
No, ... de Notre-Seigneur Jésus-Christ. That was the point! Un pédant insupportable écrit : Parmi les œuvres de Messiaen, tu as le choix entre - La Nativité du Seigneur et La Transfiguration de Notre Seigneur Jésus-Christ. Alors peut-être tu voulais enlever ce trait d'union... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
C Dish
|
|
« Reply #67 on: 14:19:48, 02-01-2008 » |
|
Those are two very different pieces! One is a gigantic, oft-overlooked choral work with fantastic noisy percussion movements (14 mvts total) and the nativite is a teensy (not) organ cycle of exceptional beauty. Fortunately, both are available on the same CD, perhaps for Christmas 2008? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
inert fig here
|
|
|
|
Bryn
|
|
« Reply #68 on: 14:25:27, 02-01-2008 » |
|
Those are two very different pieces! One is a gigantic, oft-overlooked choral work with fantastic noisy percussion movements (14 mvts total) and the nativite is a teensy (not) organ cycle of exceptional beauty. Fortunately, both are available on the same CD, perhaps for Christmas 2008? "(S)ame CD", (singular), CD? I thought even our French cousins went in for the plural "CDs" when referring to two discs in a dual jewel case. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: 14:33:52, 02-01-2008 by Bryn »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
strinasacchi
|
|
« Reply #69 on: 14:36:12, 02-01-2008 » |
|
Can anyone tell me the meaning of the line "The sting of death is sin and the strength of sin is the law"? I also go "huh?" when I hear "They shoot out their lips." Or I would if I wasn't busy thrashing out dotted rhythms.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Don Basilio
|
|
« Reply #70 on: 17:22:33, 02-01-2008 » |
|
I composed a lengthy analysis of St Paul in answer to this, and then I lost contact with the site and my post disappeared.
Perhaps God is trying to tell me not to spend so much time on these boards and not waffle on about religion.
"Shoot out their lips" sounds as though it means "stick out their tongues".
The sin and death bit is from St Paul's Letter to the Romans, a profound and influential, if opaque, work, whose interpretation by Luther (we are justified by faith alone, not by law) is fundamental to the protestant understanding of Christianity. Christianity had managed very well for 1500 years on the basis that the important things were to worship God and be kind to our fellow humans, but that was not good enough for Luther.
I think "If God be for us who can be against us" is the dreariest number in Messiah, but that may well be because I am unsympathetic to its theology. Am I right that that is the source for the sin and death quote?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
|
|
|
|
George Garnett
|
|
« Reply #71 on: 18:02:27, 02-01-2008 » |
|
I also go "huh?" when I hear "They shoot out their lips." I am sure this isn't right (he said helpfully). But I can never separate that image from the ones which come a few verses later (in Psalm 22 that is): "Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round. They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravaging and roaring lion." Just been reading it again. My God, whoever it was who wrote it, those of us in the clinical depression club can recognise a fellow sufferer when we come across one. I don't believe there's ever been a more accurate description of what it feels like than Psalm 22 Verses 6 to 18. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: 18:11:09, 02-01-2008 by George Garnett »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Tony Watson
Guest
|
|
« Reply #72 on: 18:39:13, 02-01-2008 » |
|
Christianity had managed very well for 1500 years on the basis that the important things were to worship God and be kind to our fellow humans, but that was not good enough for Luther. As you rightly said, Don B, I am an atheist but I do find it interesting what people think and have thought. I'm about halfway through Reformation by Diarmaid MacCulloch at the moment and it's a fascinating book. I had never fully understood what Luther had meant by justification by faith before, or at least the thinking behind it. I was also reading in the newspaper today about the concerns some Americans have about Mitt Romney, who might be their first Mormon president. He's had to affirm his belief in Jesus Christ to allay fears in some quarters. It reminded me of a former colleague of mine, a religious studies teacher, who made his pupils copy from the board the statement that Mormons were not Christians and I remember wondering at the time whether it was as clear cut as that. But I'm getting off the subject so here's a little Messiah story. I first got to know Handel's Messiah when I was about 12. A friend of mine who was interested in religion told me that his local vicar had said that he and I could go round to his house any time to listen to Messiah. I was curious about the music so we went a few times to listen to excerpts. It was all perfectly innocent; why shouldn't it have been? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
time_is_now
|
|
« Reply #73 on: 19:12:20, 02-01-2008 » |
|
No, ... de Notre-Seigneur Jésus-Christ. That was the point! Un pédant insupportable écrit : Parmi les œuvres de Messiaen, tu as le choix entre - La Nativité du Seigneur et La Transfiguration de Notre Seigneur Jésus-Christ. I give up. I think I meant La Transfiguration, but I was clearly thinking so hard about silent consonants that the rest of my brain went into shutdown. I shall retire gracefully to listen to the Christmas Oratorio. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
|
|
|
|
George Garnett
|
|
« Reply #74 on: 19:15:57, 02-01-2008 » |
|
Pronounced 'Chri'mas Oratorio' in all the best circles.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
