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Author Topic: Clarinet  (Read 889 times)
richard barrett
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« Reply #15 on: 19:55:39, 10-02-2008 »

Professor Braxton used to play a mean B flat clarinet earlier in his career (Montreux/Berlin concerts), as did Tony Scott in the 50s & 60s. Apart from this straight model, usually just known as 'the clarinet' there's a model in A, which gives orchestral player an easier time with sharp keys, an octave below the standard B flat one, there' the bass clarinet, brought to maturity as a solo instrument, history books tell us, by Eric Dolphy. Buddy de Franco used it on one album only called 'Blues bag' with Art Blakey. Later notables on this instrument have included Rudi Mahall, Michel Portal, Louis Sclavis & Jacques di Donato. A farther octave down is the contrabass clarinet; a fit instrument to communicate with whales, some wag remarked. Braxton & German Wolfgang Fuchs are noted performers on this, as is remarkable Californian multi-instrumentalist Vinny Golia, who plays nearly every instrument with a reed in it.

Prof Braxton, surprisingly enough, plays both Bb clarinet and flute on the Merkin Hall duo with Richard Teitelbaum on electronics, recorded in 1994, long after I thought he'd more or less abandoned these instruments. (I think he decided to pull out everything he had for this gig on account of RT having such a massive range of sampled and synthetic sounds.)

And, while we're listing clarinets, there are plenty more to choose from: above the "normal" Bb model there are instruments in C, D and Eb and a sopranino in Ab, and below the Bb there's the basset horn in F and alto in Eb before you get to the bass, and then the contraalto in Eb between the bass and contrabass. And that's only the ones in current use: going back a century or two, as our resident clarinet expert Mr Sudden will tell us, there are many more different ones.
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Ubu-Impudicus
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« Reply #16 on: 22:33:02, 10-02-2008 »

Vinny Golia seems to play most of them. There's a CD on his own label 'Nine winds' in the 'Music for like instruments' series where only clarinets play(apart from a tarogato on one track which is too conical to be a real clarinet & possibly too woody to be a saxophone). The music is actually very good, some of it possibly brilliant- jazz? Ooh, I don't know about that
As soon as some people see a metal instrument with keys & a bell, they assume it's a saxophone. The chances are, if it has a cylindrical bore it's a clarinet. Staright B flat models can be made of metal, & Leblanc's 'paper clip' design, as in the contrabass & contra-alto Braxton plays (see cover of 'News from the 70s') invariably are, because wood couldn't really be made to bend like that. The range of pitch available to a clarinet is considerably greater than a saxophone, tho its dynamic range tends to be less (not so loud). Fingering is more difficult because, instead of an octave key that raises a note by an octave, clarinets have a key that raises a note by a 12th.
About bass clarinettists, I should probably have mentioned Harry Sparnaay, who's had pieces commissioned for the instrument. I doubt if he's heard the original unaccompanied version(s) of 'God bless the child' by Dolphy because that transcription somebody did for him is seriously off.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #17 on: 00:21:15, 11-02-2008 »

The Dolphy transcription wasn't actually done specifically for Sparnaay for what it's worth (which I'm not sure is very much)...

As soon as some people see a metal instrument with keys & a bell, they assume it's a saxophone. The chances are, if it has a cylindrical bore it's a clarinet.

In fact there's no chance involved: the cylindrical bore is indeed the crucial difference, leading to the clarinet's characteristic harmonic spectrum. But if I'm at the airport and a security person is proud of identifying my contrabass clarinet as a saxophone I just agree and pass swiftly on.

I would hesitate to say that clarinet fingering is 'more difficult' - the French-system clarinet has fewer cross-fingerings; the work of the little fingers is much simpler on the French-system clarinet since because nearly everything's duplicated there's rarely any need for sliding. You do have to think differently because a C overblown isn't a C any more, but the actual work the fingers (as opposed to the brain) need to do is easier I would say.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #18 on: 00:45:49, 11-02-2008 »

About bass clarinettists, I should probably have mentioned Harry Sparnaay, who's had pieces commissioned for the instrument.
Including at least one that he's never played (though someone not entirely unconnected with this forum has).
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C Dish
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« Reply #19 on: 06:06:12, 11-02-2008 »

I want to re-iterate Jimmy Giuffre and now I have done so.

I cannot believe, sometimes, the range of this musician. He seems to have never stopped trying new things. Also hard to know when he started trying them.

Good night!
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inert fig here
Ubu-Impudicus
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« Reply #20 on: 08:43:54, 11-02-2008 »

The Dolphy transcription wasn't actually done specifically for Sparnaay for what it's worth (which I'm not sure is very much)...

As soon as some people see a metal instrument with keys & a bell, they assume it's a saxophone. The chances are, if it has a cylindrical bore it's a clarinet.

In fact there's no chance involved: the cylindrical bore is indeed the crucial difference, leading to the clarinet's characteristic harmonic spectrum. But if I'm at the airport and a security person is proud of identifying my contrabass clarinet as a saxophone I just agree and pass swiftly on.

I would hesitate to say that clarinet fingering is 'more difficult' - the French-system clarinet has fewer cross-fingerings; the work of the little fingers is much simpler on the French-system clarinet since because nearly everything's duplicated there's rarely any need for sliding. You do have to think differently because a C overblown isn't a C any more, but the actual work the fingers (as opposed to the brain) need to do is easier I would say.
I take it this is the 'simple' or Albert system clarinet, as played by Barney Bigard among others. I've never set fingers on one, but the little-finger keys do resemble those of a saxophone more than Boehm system clarinets.
If this is all very single-reed-centred (aren't bassoons, oboes etc. more or less cylindrical?) this is because fewer players are found in the jazz & improvised field, Karen Borca, Mick Beck & Sara Schoenbeck on bassoon, Yusef Lateef & Sonny Simmons on oboe & English horn. By the way on Prince Lasha's 'Firebirds' Sonny Simmons plays English horn, while the leader plays the rarely heard E flat alto clarinet, as well as saxophone & flute
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #21 on: 20:27:45, 11-02-2008 »

Bassoons and oboes are effectively conical-bore instruments, in fact - the nature of the double-reed setup makes a conical bore practically a necessity although there are exceptions (the main one being the sordune since you ask. Oh, oops, it seems you didn't Wink ).

The little finger keys on a simple-system clarinet (and for that matter in the Albert system, and even the fully modernised Oehler which German orchestral players use - and some of their jäzzers like Oliver Leicht) are certainly very like a saxophone's in operation. That's why those clarinets often have rollers to facilitate movement between the little finger keys.

But the French system I was talking about is the Buffet-Klosé system as patented in 1843. Instead of needing to put down the C key as well (I'll use the second-register pitches because then the saxophone relationship is clearer) for B or C#, the B and C# keys automatically depress the C key as well, allowing for the duplication of all three keys so that they can be operated by either little finger on its own. That system works so well that the French-system keywork has barely changed since then - my 'modern' instruments have only one key that the 1843 patent doesn't have. The 1843 French clarinet can play as comfortably in any key as any other woodwind instrument even today - and can indeed play almost all the quarter-tones throughout its range. It's a damn fine piece of design - if there's one thing wrong with it it's that its efficiency has deterred further experimentation...

Sorry, nothing to do with jazz. I'll get me anorak.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #22 on: 20:36:17, 11-02-2008 »

While we're on the subject of big clarinets and the sometimes surprising things that can happen with them, Ubu, if you (or anyone else reading) hasn't heard the first track of this CD it's most definitely worth a listen.

(I wouldn't bother with the Sponsored Links.)
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
oliver sudden
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« Reply #23 on: 20:21:50, 12-02-2008 »

[there followed a certain amount of discussion concerning a recent performance of Member Barrett's interference. This has been moved here.]
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Tenor Freak
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« Reply #24 on: 17:12:21, 01-03-2008 »

Tony Coe. 
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words are trains for moving past what really has no name
King Kennytone
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« Reply #25 on: 11:11:08, 19-03-2008 »


3 degrees
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #26 on: 18:08:00, 19-03-2008 »

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time_is_now
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« Reply #27 on: 20:11:19, 19-03-2008 »

That looks like one of those Braxton diagrams, KK! (you know, evolution of processes > imaginary state models > formal scheme evolution and all that jazz) ...
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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