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Author Topic: One Page of Prose per Post, Purple or Plain  (Read 1841 times)
martle
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« Reply #60 on: 09:33:56, 09-05-2008 »


 I don't think any MK juvenilia has ever been released for performance, unless maybe in some kind of recycled form.

I'll get my colleague onto this. (He's just published the first exhaustive book on Kagel's work, so he may well know something we don't.)
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #61 on: 09:51:34, 09-05-2008 »


 I don't think any MK juvenilia has ever been released for performance, unless maybe in some kind of recycled form.

I'll get my colleague onto this. (He's just published the first exhaustive book on Kagel's work, so he may well know something we don't.)
Björn Heile's book doesn't mention anything about this (I checked it yesterday). To be fair, it's the first comprehensive book in English on Kagel; there are others in French, Spanish and German (in particular the two large volumes by Werner Klüppelholz which pick up from where Dieter Schnebel's earlier book on Kagel leave off).
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
martle
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« Reply #62 on: 10:05:30, 09-05-2008 »

Indeed, Ian. But I'll ask him anyway - he's seen plenty of unpublished material and other stuff that never made it into the book.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #63 on: 12:39:56, 09-05-2008 »

Actually Proust's was the fifteenth of our twenty most influential books; we omitted two for some reason. Here then is a page from the thirteenth, Roger Peyrefitte's novel Roy, published in 1979 but not yet as far as we are aware translated into English! It relates the quite riveting adventures of a youth, Roy Clear by name, who is the rightful king of France in this age but happens to live in Beverly Hills:

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oliver sudden
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« Reply #64 on: 20:17:50, 09-05-2008 »

Indeed, Ian. But I'll ask him anyway - he's seen plenty of unpublished material and other stuff that never made it into the book.
Or I could just ask Kagel. Can someone remind me in the last week of May?
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #65 on: 11:59:15, 10-05-2008 »

The fourteenth of our twenty most influential books is Plato's Symposium. He probably tossed it off one Saturday afternoon; what an experience it would be for him were he to return to-day to find it to have been largely his works that had shaped the course of Western thought!

Diotima has we find been rather overdone, so let us instead without further ado or comment present two pages from the speech of Aristophanes in the translation of Mr. W. Hamilton:

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martle
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« Reply #66 on: 18:55:18, 13-05-2008 »

Especially for PW, Tommo and any other regular commuters, the opening of Patrick Hamilton's 'The Slaves of Solitude' (1946):


London, the crouching monster, like every other monster has to breathe, and breathe it does in its own obscure, malignant way. Its vital oxygen is composed of suburban working men and women of all kinds, who every morning are sucked up through an infinitely complicated respiratory apparatus of trains and termini into the mighty congested lungs, held there for a number of hours, and then, in the evening, exhaled violently through the same channels.

The men and women imagine they are going into London and coming out again more or less of their own free will, but the crouching monster sees all and knows better.

The area affected by this filthy inhalation actually extends beyond what we ordinarily think of as the suburbs - to towns, villages, and districts as far as, or further than, twenty-five miles from the capital. Amongst these was Thames Lockdon, which lay on the river some miles beyond Maidenhead on the Maidenhead line.

The conditions were those of intense war, intense winter, and intensest black-out in the month of December. The engine carrying the 6.30 from Paddington steamed into Thames Lockdon station at about a quarter past seven. It arrived up against buffers, for Thames Lockdon was a terminus, and it hissed furiously. That hiss, in the blackness of the station, might have been the sound of the crouching monster's last, exhausted, people-expelling breath in this riverside outpost of its daily influence and domain. Or it might, tonight, merely have been the engine hissing through its teeth against the cold.

One waiting at the barrier to meet a friend could see compartment doors being flung open rapidly everywhere (as though some sort of panic had occured within the train), and the next moment a small army of home-seekers, in full attack, came rushing towards the dim black-out light - like moonlight gone bad - above the ticket collector. Those who were early enough got through at once, but soon the rush of the crowd was caught in the bottle-neck, and there was formed a slow, shuffling queue of people, having green tickets snatched from them in the bad moonlight.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #67 on: 10:26:09, 14-05-2008 »

Mr. Martle's extract certainly makes cities and crowd-life seem sinister!


The sixteenth of our twenty most influential books is Schelling's Historico-Critical Introduction to the Philosophy of Mythology, published in 1856, two years after his death at Bad Ragaz. In it we find the first true advance in philosophy since Decartes's "I am because I think" (the works of Hume and Kant may be safely ignored). Here is a passage explaining the crux of the matter; note that the word "society" in all this is a translation of "Volk" - as in "ein Volk ein Führer" and all that sort of thing. Note also that the key concept of "process" was very effectively taken up by Whitehead in the twentieth century:

"The foundation of mythology is already laid in the first actual consciousness, and polytheism thus already came into existence in essence with the transition thereto. Therefore it follows that the act through which the foundation for polytheism is laid is not itself within the actual consciousness, but lies outside this. The first actual consciousness is found already with this affection, through which it is separated from its eternal and essential existence. It can no longer return to that, and it can as little go beyond this qualification as beyond itself. Hence this qualification has something incomprehensible for consciousness, it is the unwanted and unforeseen consequence of a movement which consciousness cannot reverse. The origin of the qualification lies in a region to which consciousness no longer has access once it has been separated from it. That which has intruded, that which is accidental, is transformed into something necessary and immediately assumes the form of something which can now never be eliminated.

"The alteration of consciousness consists in the absolutely-One god no longer dwelling in it, only the relatively-One. Yet this relative god is succeeded by the second not by chance, but in accordance with an objective necessity which we do indeed not yet understand, but are no less for that reason obliged to recognize as such (as objective) in advance. With that first qualification, thus, consciousness at the same time becomes subject to the necessary succession of representations by way of which genuine polytheism comes into existence. Once the first affection has been established, the movement of consciousness through these successive forms is one of a kind in which thought and will, reason and freedom, no longer play a part. Consciousness became caught up in this movement unawares, in a manner now no longer comprehensible to it itself. The movement behaves in respect to consciousness like its fate, like its doomed destiny, in the face of which it can do nothing. It is, for consciousness, a real force, that is to say a force now no longer under its control, which has taken it over. Prior to all thought, consciousness has already been captured by that principle, whose purely natural consequence is multitheism and mythology.

"Therefore--admittedly not in the sense of a philosophy which has man beginning from animal obtuseness and meaninglessness, but certainly in the sense which the Greeks suggested in various very characteristic expressions like theoplektos, theoblabes and the like, in the sense, thus, that consciousness is afflicted by the onesided-One and as it were struck down--at any rate, the most ancient man is found in a condition of bondage (of which we living under the law of an entirely different era can form for ourselves no direct concept), struck down by a kind of stupor (stupefacta quasi et attonita) and seized by an alien power, rendered beside himself, that is to say out of his own control.

"The ideas through whose succession not only does formal polytheism arise directly, but also, indirectly, material (simultaneous) polytheism, are generated for consciousness without its participation, indeed against its will, and--to state it in a definitive way, putting an end to all earlier explanations which assume invention to be somehow involved in mythology, and in a way which is the first which really gives us that which is independent of all invention, indeed opposed to all invention, and which we already had occasion to call for earlier--mythology comes into existence through one NECESSARY (as seen by consciousness) PROCESS, whose origin is lost in the suprahistorical and hidden from its own self, a process which consciousness, at odd moments, can perhaps resist, but which as a whole it cannot arrest, still less reverse.

"With this, accordingly, there would be put forward, as the general concept of the way it comes into existence, the concept of the process, which takes mythology, and with it our investigation, right out of the sphere within which all of the explanations hitherto have remained. With this concept is resolved the question of how the mythological ideas were intended to be understood as they came into existence. The question about how the mythological ideas were intended to be understood, points to the difficulty or impossibility, in which we find ourselves, of accepting that they were intended to be understood as truth. Therefore what is then first attempted is to interpret them extrinsically, that is to say, to assume a truth in them, but a truth different from that which they directly express--what is attempted secondly is to see an original truth in them, but one which has been corrupted. But according to the result now reached the question can be raised, rather, of whether the mythological ideas were intended to be understood at all, whether, that is, they were the object of an expression of what is understood, the object, that is to say, of a free act of holding something to be true. Here too, therefore, the question was put wrongly, it was put subject to a presupposition which was itself incorrect. The mythological ideas are neither invented nor freely assumed.--Products of a process independent of thought and will, they possessed, for the consciousness subject to that process, unambiguous and irrefutable reality. Societies, like individuals, are only instruments of this process, of which they have no overall view, which they serve without understanding it. It is not in the power of societies to escape these ideas, to accept them or not to accept them; for they do not come to societies from outside, they exist in societies without the societies being conscious of how; for they come from the inner nature of consciousness itself, to which they display themselves with a necessity which permits no doubt about their truth.

"Once the idea of its coming into existence in such a way has been arrived at, then it is entirely understandable that mythology regarded in a merely material way seemed so enigmatic, while it is a known fact that other things too that are based on a spiritual process, on a characteristic inner experience, seem strange and incomprehensible to him who lacks this experience, whereas for him from whom the inner process is not concealed they have a wholly understandable and rational meaning. The main question in respect to mythology is the question of its meaning. But the meaning of mythology can only be the meaning of the process through which it comes into existence.

"Were the personalities and events, which form the content of mythology, of such a kind that we could take them to be, in accordance with accepted concepts, possible objects of an immediate experience, were gods beings who could become manifest, then no one would ever have considered taking them in any sense other than the literal one. The belief in the truth and objectivity of these representations, a belief which we would certainly have to ascribe to heathenism, lest it became itself a fable for us, would have been explained quite simply by an actual experience of that earlier humanity; it would have simply been assumed that these personalities, these events, had for it indeed existed and appeared in that way, thus had also been true for that humanity when understood entirely literally, in just the same way as the analogous appearances and encounters which are related of the Israelites, and which for us in the circumstances of today are equally impossible, were true for them. But now, precisely this, which was earlier unthinkable, has been made possible by the explanation now established; this explanation is the first which has an answer to the question of how it was possible for the societies of antiquity not only to give credence to those religious ideas, which seem to us thoroughly absurd and irrational, but also to offer up to them the most solemn, and in some cases cruel, sacrifices.

"Because mythology is something which did not come into existence artificially, but naturally, indeed, subject to the precondition stated, with necessity, then in it content and form, substance and expression, may not be distinguished from each other. The ideas are not first present in another form, but come into being only in and thus also at the same time as this form. Such an organic development was called for by us earlier in these lectures, but the principle of the only process by which it could be explained had not been found.

"Because consciousness chooses or invents neither the ideas themselves nor their expression, mythology, then, comes into being at once as such, and in no sense other than the one in which it is expressed. In consequence of the necessity with which the content of the ideas is generated, mythology has, right from the beginning, real and thus also doctrinal meaning; in consequence of the necessity with which the form, too, comes into existence, mythology is wholly literal, that is to say everything in it should be understood just as it is stated, not as if one thing were thought, and another said. Mythology is not allegorical, it is tautegorical.* The gods, for it, are beings actually existing, who do not exist as one thing, and mean another, but mean only that which they are. Earlier, literality and doctrinal meaning were set up in opposition to each other. But the two (literality and doctrinal meaning) may not, according to our explanation, be separated, and instead of relinquishing the literality for the sake of some doctrinal sense, or, like the poetical viewpoint, saving the literality, but at the cost of the doctrinal meaning, we are, on the contrary, in fact obliged by our explanation to maintain the all-encompassing unity and indivisibility of the meaning.

* I am borrowing this expression from the renowned Coleridge, the first of his countrymen who has understood, and used in a meaningful way, German poetry, science, and especially philosophy."
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pim_derks
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« Reply #68 on: 11:04:07, 14-05-2008 »

Mr Grew, you are a wicked witch.
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"People hate anything well made. It gives them a guilty conscience." John Betjeman
Don Basilio
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« Reply #69 on: 14:35:01, 28-05-2008 »

In discussions elsewhere regarding a genre of which I doubt Dr Grew is an addict (viz the Broadway Musical), Member Derks reminded me to look up Ronald Firbank's Concerning the Eccentricities of Cardinal Pirelli where I found this vignette:



"I've a knack with a rochet": however could I not remember that?

Member Dough's inevitably impressive photograph on the Churches and Cathedrals thread of a masterpiece of Andean Baroque commissioned by the Society of Jesus provides the suitable setting, although a large part of the effect of Firbank's work is in what he leaves to the imagination.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
oliver sudden
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« Reply #70 on: 16:50:07, 28-05-2008 »


 I don't think any MK juvenilia has ever been released for performance, unless maybe in some kind of recycled form.

I'll get my colleague onto this. (He's just published the first exhaustive book on Kagel's work, so he may well know something we don't.)

In the meantime I have asked Da Man Himself who informs me that the piece in question still exists and ended up as part of La Trahison orale.
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martle
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« Reply #71 on: 18:08:52, 29-05-2008 »

Nice one, Ollie! And thanks for reminding me I said I'd ask about that. But now I don't have to.  Cheesy  Undecided
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #72 on: 21:53:43, 31-07-2008 »

I don't think we have had an undoubted master of English prose style, Edward Gibbon, Gent.  Dr Grew may rejoice in his implied favour for polytheism, and I must deplore it, but he puts the case against Christianity with such delicate sarcasm as to make Professor Dawkins appear a crude bully.  I don't care for his ideas, but I love the style.

A CANDID but rational inquiry into the progress and establishment of Christianity may be considered as a very essential part of the history of the Roman empire. While that great body was invaded by open violence, or undermined by slow decay, a pure and humble religion gently insinuated itself into the minds of men, grew up in silence and obscurity, derived new vigour from opposition, and finally erected the triumphant banner of the Cross on the ruins of the Capitol. Nor was the influence of Christianity confined to the period or to the limits of the Roman empire. After a revolution of thirteen or fourteen centuries, that religion is still professed by the nations of Europe, the most distinguished portion of human kind in arts and learning as well as in arms. By the industry and zeal of the Europeans it has been widely diffused to the most distant shores of Asia and Africa; and by the means of their colonies has been firmly established from Canada to Chili, in a world unknown to the ancients.

But this inquiry, however useful or entertaining, is attended with two peculiar difficulties. The scanty and suspicious materials of ecclesiastical history seldom enable us to dispel the dark cloud that hangs over the first age of the church. The great law of impartiality too often obliges us to reveal the imperfections of the uninspired teachers and believers of the Gospel; and, to a careless observer, their faults may seem to cast a shade on the faith which they professed. But the scandal of the pious Christian, and the fallacious triumph of the Infidel, should cease as soon as they recollect not only by whom, but likewise to whom, the Divine Revelation was given. The theologian may indulge the pleasing task of describing Religion as she descended from Heaven, arrayed in her native purity. A more melancholy duty is imposed on the historian. He must discover the inevitable mixture of error and corruption which she contracted in long residence upon earth, among a weak and degenerate race of beings.

Our curiosity is naturally prompted to inquire by what means the Christian faith obtained so remarkable a victory over the established religions of the earth. To this inquiry an obvious but unsatisfactory answer may be returned; that it was owing to the convincing evidence of the doctrine itself, and to the ruling providence of its great Author. But as truth and reason seldom find so favourable a reception in the world, and as the wisdom of Providence frequently condescends to use the passions of the human heart, and the general circumstances of mankind, as instruments to execute its purpose, we may still be permitted, though with becoming submission, to ask, not indeed what were the first, but what were the secondary causes of the rapid growth of the Christian church?

It will, perhaps, appear that it was most effectually favoured and assisted by the five following causes:I. The inflexible, and, if we may use the expression, the intolerant zeal of the Christians, derived, it is true, from the Jewish religion, but purified from the narrow and unsocial spirit which, instead of inviting, had deterred the Gentiles from embracing the law of Moses. II. The doctrine of a future life, improved by every additional circumstance which could give weight and efficacy to that important truth. III.The miraculous powers ascribed to the primitive church. IV. The pure and austere morals of the Christians. V. The union and discipline of the Christian republic, which gradually formed an independent and increasing state in the heart of the Roman empire.


I trust I have sufficiently pure and austere morals.  My submission is always becoming.  In fact I would never dream of submitting on any other terms.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
martle
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« Reply #73 on: 16:12:34, 21-10-2008 »

[The dean] produced four candle-butts from the side-pockets of his soutane and placed them deftly among the coals and twisted papers. Kneeling thus on the flagstone to kindle the fire and busied with the disposition of his wisps of paper and candle-butts he seemed more than ever a humble server making ready the place of sacrifice in an empty temple, a levite of the Lord. Like a levite’s robe of plain linen the faded worn soutane draped the kneeling figure of one whom the canonicals or the bell-bordered ephod would irk and trouble. His very body had waxed old in lowly service of the Lord – in tending the fire upon the altar, in bearing tidings secretly, in waiting upon worldlings, in striking swiftly when bidden – and yet had remained ungraced by aught of saintly or of prelatic beauty. Nay, his very soul had waxed old in that service without growing towards light and beauty or spreading abroad a sweet odour of her sanctity – a mortified will no more responsive to the thrill of its obedience than was to the thrill of love or combat his ageing body, spare and sinewy, greyed with a silver-pointed down.

James Joyce – A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
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time_is_now
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« Reply #74 on: 23:07:20, 26-10-2008 »

I still think it's verging-on-unreadable. Undecided
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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