Ron Dough
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« Reply #15 on: 21:45:06, 19-08-2008 » |
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And indeed Stephen Oliver (1950-92), the most prolific British opera composer of the last century, first came to notice with his version of The Duchess of Malfi at the age of 21....
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richard barrett
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« Reply #16 on: 21:46:09, 19-08-2008 » |
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Boesmans, Philippe. (b.1936) Wintermärchen.
I don't know this work but, knowing what I know of Boesmans' other music, I reckon you might like it, Ron. (Ollie will back me up on this I think.) There's a recording on DG. And indeed Stephen Oliver (1950-92), the most prolific British opera composer of the last century, first came to notice with his version of The Duchess of Malfi at the age of 21....
Another crackpot authorship theory we haven't heard about, Ron?
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martle
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« Reply #17 on: 21:58:06, 19-08-2008 » |
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Mediocre source material tends to make for better operas Gosh. I have a suspicion this is correct in a generalized way, but only because great poetry (and surely this is what WS's plays are, in addition to their dramaturgical qualities) does not usually make for grateful sung text. Why does anyone, composers especially, imagine that a coherent bit of drama or poetry will make for a coherent libretto? It's nonsense. Britten, Mozart - and da Ponte and Boito - realised this.
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Green. Always green.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #18 on: 22:02:41, 19-08-2008 » |
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Boesmans, Philippe. (b.1936) Wintermärchen.
I don't know this work but, knowing what I know of Boesmans' other music, I reckon you might like it, Ron. (Ollie will back me up on this I think.) There's a recording on DG. And indeed Stephen Oliver (1950-92), the most prolific British opera composer of the last century, first came to notice with his version of The Duchess of Malfi at the age of 21....
Another crackpot authorship theory we haven't heard about, Ron? Sorry, r: that was in reply to hh's Webster suggestion in the message before, which I would have quoted had I realised that it was going to end up on the previous page.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #19 on: 22:09:54, 19-08-2008 » |
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Another crackpot authorship theory we haven't heard about, Ron? Sorry, r: that was in reply to hh's Webster suggestion in the message before, which I would have quoted had I realised that it was going to end up on the previous page. Oops, I missed that. Er... Turfan Fragment stole my glasses!
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #20 on: 22:10:32, 19-08-2008 » |
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Mediocre source material tends to make for better operas Gosh. I have a suspicion this is correct in a generalized way, but only because great poetry (and surely this is what WS's plays are, in addition to their dramaturgical qualities) does not usually make for grateful sung text. Why does anyone, composers especially, imagine that a coherent bit of drama or poetry will make for a coherent libretto? It's nonsense. Britten, Mozart - and da Ponte and Boito - realised this. Yes, because you hope that opera is going to add something to what's already there. With Shakespeare you have to take so much away that even with the extra that opera should add, you still don't achieve what was there before you took it away. I'll mention Humphrey Searle's Hamlet again at this juncture: still, I think, the bleakest night I've ever spent in an opera house (on that side of the footlights, at any rate): the extraordinary rendered worse than ordinary. <shudder emoticon>
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richard barrett
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« Reply #21 on: 22:24:17, 19-08-2008 » |
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I don't think "mediocre" is really the right word though. I think of it more like this: a composer has to feel that there's something unique he or she can say about the text, look at it in a subtly or radically new way, deepen or widen the viewer's understanding of it, rather than "add to" or "complete" it. This is very difficult to do with Shakespeare because it's all been interpreted and produced to heck, but presumably Humphry Searle thought he could do it with Hamlet and it seems he couldn't, though I don't know that work myself. Nevertheless I don't think it's impossible. I can't think of any examples of composers actually succeeding in doing it, but Edward Bond's Lear is an example of the kind of reinterpretation, but on a musical level, that fulfils the conditions I've outlined. It does tell us something about Shakespeare's play, specifically about its characters, and much more besides.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #22 on: 22:26:11, 19-08-2008 » |
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Any comments on Purcell's Fairy Queen?
I hadn't actually twigged that was anything to do with aMsN'sD before. Or if I did, I had forgotten. In itself it doesn't have a great deal to do with it of course. I believe there isn't a single word of Shakespeare in it. Significantly, no opera based on Lear has entered the mainstream repertoire (never heard Reimann's effort, but would be interested to): Debussy couldn't get his effort off the starting blocks and Verdi's didn't even get to the still-born stage. Is there something about the hugeness of the play (any composer would be daunted by the challenge of creating music for the storm scene) that makes composers falter in their tracks?
Sidebar to this, I think King Lear is some distance from being Shakespeare's masterpiece: in fact, I'd say it's one of those rare instances where the bard's reach exceeded his grasp. A qualified failure, in fact.
Can't quite agree with your assessment of the play, personally, but ā chacun son goût. I can't quite imagine a world in which the Reimann is part of the standard repertoire although if anyone out there knows of one let me know and I'll pack my bags. What most struck me about it in terms of its relationship to Shakespeare is that although hardly any of the bits of Lear I really like are in it the broad sweep of the narrative is still immensely powerful in a very Learish way, or so I found last time I heard it. And that's from a composer who otherwise hasn't come close to grabbing me. I can only wish there were more adaptations of toweringly great literary works that managed to do that.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #23 on: 22:48:21, 19-08-2008 » |
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Yes, r, and plays like the Marowitz Hamlet, where the play is de- and re-constructed. Sadly the Searle, despite the modernity of his score, was a very matter-of-fact paring-down of the text, like a shortened school version, and the production was very traditional, resembling theatre productions of the piece twenty years previously. I saw the premiere production of Bond's Lear, and know exactly what you mean. I've heard the Reimann, but never seen it.
To return to Stephen Oliver for a moment: one of his forty or so operas was a Timon of Athens.
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martle
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« Reply #24 on: 22:55:13, 19-08-2008 » |
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One of my benchmarks for all this is Peter Westergaard's The Tempest (mid-nineties). He insisted on setting every word of S's text, bar none. It's long, painful and embarrassing. I know about it because he was one of my teachers and I helped prepare an early version of the vocal score. Brilliant guy. But this goes to show exactly the pitfalls of trusting in quality literature to provide instant libretto.
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Green. Always green.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #25 on: 22:56:03, 19-08-2008 » |
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I can't quite imagine a world in which the Reimann is part of the standard repertoire although if anyone out there knows of one let me know and I'll pack my bags. It's had four productions though (Munich, San Francisco, Paris and London) which isn't bad for a composer whose work is hardly ever performed outside Germany and not really very often there either. The London production, which I saw twice, was quite powerful.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #26 on: 23:10:45, 19-08-2008 » |
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Anyone know Der Sturm, by Frank Martin? There used to be a couple of excerpts on LP, and a few more recently on a Chandos CD, but I've not encountered the whole piece.
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ernani
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« Reply #27 on: 23:50:41, 19-08-2008 » |
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So many fascinating comments here. The problem (for me) is the sheer volume of Shakespearean operas and how to say something semi-coherent in the 10,000 words allowed by the commission - ohime! Anyway, in terms of plot, like many operas, plot is in many ways the least interesing thing about Shakespeare's plays, many of which are lifted wholesale from other sources. Rather, what makes the plays (and by analogy operas) is the music of the language (or, conversely, the language of the music). I'm also interested that no one yet has said anything about the copious amount of music in Shakespeare's plays: songs, obviously, but also instrumental music. Obviously music was an important feature of early modern drama and Shakespeare is far from being the only writer who used it. But he has some particularly interesting things to say about music and I suspect that he wouldn't have found opera to be a completely alien medium...
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #28 on: 23:56:24, 19-08-2008 » |
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Am I right in thinking that there are some songs that survive from the initial productions of the plays (the one that immediately comes to mind is 'When that I was but a little tiny boy/With a heigh-ho the wind and the rain' from the end of Twelfth Night)?
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #29 on: 23:57:40, 19-08-2008 » |
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One thing to consider is the extent to which more or less literal treatments of Shakespearean text actually work as libretto fodder. Britten's MND is certainly ingenious structurally, but is it always successful as sung text? I think that Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream is a thing of wonder, but I am also a big fan of Britten's treatment of it. It was my way into Britten's operatic output. I think I'm right in stating that Britten only added one line of his own to Shakespeare's text? Prudent to plunge straight into the magic of the wood, with that strange disorientating opening. I wonder why he chose to have Puck as a spoken role rather than sung? To do with the text, or for dramatic reasons?
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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