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Author Topic: Poetry Appreciation Thread.  (Read 19823 times)
trained-pianist
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« Reply #180 on: 21:19:02, 10-06-2007 »

Marbleflugel,
If you forget about pirates you had a really good time there meeting all interesting people and visiting England of the past.
« Last Edit: 14:34:04, 14-06-2007 by trained-pianist » Logged
time_is_now
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« Reply #181 on: 15:13:33, 11-06-2007 »

.I met a friend of  Stanley  Holloway's widow who still lives there in her nineties. (SH was in My Fair lady and Brief Encounter as well as being a music-hallperformer for many years).

He also starred in that wonderful film Passport to Pimlico which I saw yesterday for free at the Mediateque of the British Film Institute on the South Bank (formerly known as the National Film Theatre.)
... and the South Bank is now known as the Southbank. Undecided

Was Stanley Holloway from Oldham, does anyone know? I'm sure my auntie says she went to school with him.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
pim_derks
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« Reply #182 on: 15:56:39, 11-06-2007 »

...risky as the transport systemincluding rides is run by pirates,so younever know where you will arrive.
A few miles up the beach towards Worthing you are in Betjeman country, England as it was in the 1930s-50s.   I met a friend of  Stanley Holloway's widow who still lives there in her nineties. (SH was in My Fair lady and Brief Encounter as well as being a music-hallperformer for many years). A few people there just about remember the society parties hosted by 30s bandleader Jack Hylton-as children spying from the top of the stairs.

Wonderful to read all these names again!

Now a poem:

Sun and Fun

I walked into the night-club in the morning;
There was kummel on the handle of the door.
The ashtrays were unemptied.
The cleaning unattempted,
And a squashed tomato sandwich on the floor.

I pulled aside the thick magenta curtains
-So Regency, so Regency, my dear –
And a host of little spiders
Ran a race across the ciders
To a box of baby ‘pollies by the beer.

Oh sun upon the summer-going by-pass
Where ev’rything is speeding to the sea,
And wonder beyond wonder
That here where lorries thunder
The sun should ever percolate to me.

When Boris used to call in his Sedanca,
When Teddy took me down to his estate
When my nose excited passion,
When my clothes were in the fashion,
When my beaux were never cross if I was late,

There was sun enough for lazing upon beaches,
There was fun enough for far into the night.
But I’m dying now and done for,
What on earth was all the fun for?
For I’m old and ill and terrified and tight.

John Betjeman




Those records were wonderful. Cool
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"People hate anything well made. It gives them a guilty conscience." John Betjeman
Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #183 on: 16:28:21, 11-06-2007 »

Pim - its a wonderful poem, I endlessly quote it by heart.  All the more tragic and moving for the triviality of the expression.

I once passed a collection bag to Betjeman in church.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Andy D
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« Reply #184 on: 16:41:33, 11-06-2007 »

I've come to this thread rather late in the day and haven't read all the way through it yet. Meanwhile here's a poem by one of my favourites, Seamus Heaney. I got modded for posting this on a BBC board!  Shocked

My spuds got quite badly scorched by the frost which we had at the bank holiday weekend, especially a row of Charlottes but my neighbours at the allotments seemed to escape completely  Sad That's often the way with late spring ground frosts, they are very patchy.

At A Potato Digging

I
A mechanical digger wrecks the drill,
Spins up a dark shower of roots and mould.
Labourers swarm in behind, stoop to fill
Wicker creels. Fingers go dead in the cold.

Like crows attacking crow-black fields, they stretch
A higgledy line from hedge to headland;
Some pairs keep breaking ragged ranks to fetch
A full creel to the pit and straighten, stand

Tall for a moment but soon stumble back
To fish a new load from the crumbled surf.
Heads bow, trucks bend, hands fumble towards the black
Mother. Processional stooping through the turf

Turns work to ritual. Centuries
Of fear and homage to the famine god
Toughen the muscles behind their humbled knees,
Make a seasonal altar of the sod.

II
Flint-white, purple. They lie scattered
Like inflated pebbles. Native
to the blank hutch of clay
where the halved seed shot and clotted
these knobbed and slit-eyed tubers seem
the petrified hearts of drills. Split
by the spade, they show white as cream.

Good smells exude from crumbled earth.
The rough bark of humus erupts
knots of potatoes (a clean birth)
whose solid feel, whose wet inside
promises taste of ground and root.
To be piled in pits; live skulls, blind-eyed.

III
Live skulls, blind-eyed, balanced on
wild higgledy skeletons
scoured the land in 'forty-five,'
wolfed the blighted root and died.

The new potato, sound as stone,
putrified when it had lain
three days in the long clay pit.
Millions rotted along with it.

Mouths tightened in, eyes died hard,
faces chilled to a plucked bird.
In a million wicker huts
beaks of famine snipped at guts.

A people hungering from birth,
grubbing, like plants, in the bitch earth,
were grafted with a great sorrow.
Hope rotted like a marrow.

Stinking potatoes fouled the land,
pits turned pus in filthy mounds:
and where potato diggers are
you still smell the running sore.

IV
Under a white flotilla of gulls
The rhythm deadens, the workers stop.
White bread and tea in bright canfuls
Are served for lunch. Dead-beat, they flop

Down in the ditch and take their fill,
Thankfully breaking timeless fasts;
Then, stretched on the faithless ground, spill
Libations of cold tea, scatter crusts.

Seamus Heaney
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time_is_now
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« Reply #185 on: 18:50:34, 11-06-2007 »

Sun and Fun

There was sun enough for lazing upon beaches,
There was fun enough for far into the night.
But I’m dying now and done for,
What on earth was all the fun for?
For I’m old and ill and terrified and tight.

John Betjeman

It's a sort of longer version of this one, by the same author:

I made hay while the sun shone,
My work sold.
Now that the harvest is over
And the world cold,
Give me the bonus of laughter
As I lose hold.


I too find something about them both very moving, though I'm not sure it's any particular credit to Betjeman - more like the sight of a social snob and a person of very limited outlook suddenly becoming very frightened of exactly the same thing the rest of us are all frightened of too.

PS Pim, I'm curious whether you know what 'tight' means in the last line of the one you quoted? It's so old-fashioned now I can well imagine lots of English readers our age not getting it.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
time_is_now
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« Reply #186 on: 19:01:20, 11-06-2007 »

Here are some similar sentiments from another old fool (which is not to say I don't think he was a much greater poet than Betjeman):

Aubade

I work all day, and get half drunk at night.
Waking at four to soundless dark, I stare.
In time the curtain edges will grow light.
Till then I see what's really always there:
Unresting death, a whole day nearer now,
Making all thought impossible but how
And where and when I shall myself die.
Arid interrogation: yet the dread
Of dying, and being dead,
Flashes afresh to hold and horrify.
The mind blanks at the glare. Not in remorse
- The good not used, the love not given, time
Torn off unused - nor wretchedly because
An only life can take so long to climb
Clear of its wrong beginnings, and may never:
But at the total emptiness forever,
The sure extinction that we travel to
And shall be lost in always. Not to be here,
Not to be anywhere,
And soon; nothing more terrible, nothing more true.

This is a special way of being afraid
No trick dispels. Religion used to try,
That vast moth-eaten musical brocade
Created to pretend we never die,
And specious stuff that says no rational being
Can fear a thing it cannot feel, not seeing
that this is what we fear - no sight, no sound,
No touch or taste or smell, nothing to think with,
Nothing to love or link with,
The anaesthetic from which none come round.

And so it stays just on the edge of vision,
A small unfocused blur, a standing chill
That slows each impulse down to indecision
Most things may never happen: this one will,
And realisation of it rages out
In furnace fear when we are caught without
People or drink. Courage is no good:
It means not scaring others. Being brave
Lets no-one off the grave.
Death is no different whined at than withstood.

Slowly light strengthens, and the room takes shape.
It stands plain as a wardrobe, what we know,
Have always known, know that we can't escape
Yet can't accept. One side will have to go.
Meanwhile telephones crouch, getting ready to ring
In locked-up offices, and all the uncaring
Intricate rented world begins to rouse.
The sky is white as clay, with no sun.
Work has to be done.
Postmen like doctors go from house to house.

Philip Larkin
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
time_is_now
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« Reply #187 on: 19:06:25, 11-06-2007 »

And another by Larkin:

Vers de Société

My wife and I have asked a crowd of craps
To come and waste their time and ours: perhaps
You'd care to join us?
In a pig's arse, friend.
Day comes to an end.
The gas fire breathes, the trees are darkly swayed.
And so Dear Warlock-Williams: I'm afraid -

Funny how hard it is to be alone.
I could spend half my evenings, if I wanted,
Holding a glass of washing sherry, canted
Over to catch the drivel of some bitch
Who's read nothing but Which;
Just think of all the spare time that has flown

Straight into nothingness by being filled
With forks and faces, rather than repaid
Under a lamp, hearing the noise of wind,
And looking out to see the moon thinned
To an air-sharpened blade.
A life, and yet how sternly it's instilled

All solitude is selfish. No one now
Believes the hermit with his gown and dish
Talking to God (who's gone too); the big wish
Is to have people nice to you, which means
Doing it back somehow.
Virtue is social. Are, then, these routines

Playing at goodness, like going to church?
Something that bores us, something we don't do well
(Asking that ass about his fool research)
But try to feel, because, however crudely,
It shows us what should be?
Too subtle, that. Too decent, too. Oh hell,

Only the young can be alone freely.
The time is shorter now for company,
And sitting by a lamp more often brings
Not peace, but other things.
Beyond the light stand failure and remorse
Whispering Dear Warlock-Williams: Why, of course -
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
pim_derks
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« Reply #188 on: 23:57:54, 11-06-2007 »

Pim - its a wonderful poem, I endlessly quote it by heart.  All the more tragic and moving for the triviality of the expression.

I once passed a collection bag to Betjeman in church.

Don Basilio, church must have been a very suitable place to meet John Betjeman! Do you know his lovely (and in a way very funny) poem Lenten Thoughts of a High Anglican? Roll Eyes

I made hay while the sun shone,
My work sold.
Now that the harvest is over
And the world cold,
Give me the bonus of laughter
As I lose hold.


PS Pim, I'm curious whether you know what 'tight' means in the last line of the one you quoted? It's so old-fashioned now I can well imagine lots of English readers our age not getting it.

That's true, time_is_now: my Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English calls it "old-fashioned". Speaking of old-fashioned words and language: The bonus of laughter is also the title of the final volume of Bevis Hillier's biography of John Betjeman. I quote from page 273: "In 1969 Betjeman the preservationist was affectionately satirized by the cartoonist Trog (Wally Fawkes) in his 'Flook' comic strip in the Daily Mail. The artist caught brilliantly both John's appearance and his way of talking - which by then, the height of the Swinging Sixties, was as much a period piece as some of the buildings he was trying to save."



Here are some quotes from the comic strip:

"Are you the owner of this little mews? Gosh, you are lucky! It's jolly fascinating and the scale is so absolutely dead right, isn't it?"

"The detailing of that drainpipe is topping. They really understood cast-iron in the 1870s..."

"I say, I know it's frightful cheek, but could I possibly peer inside?"

"Just look how thick the bannisters are. That was to give the old boy something solid to hang on to when he was drunk on sloe gin..."


Grin
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"People hate anything well made. It gives them a guilty conscience." John Betjeman
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #189 on: 11:42:44, 14-06-2007 »

This one comes from the volume "CYRIL AND LIONEL, and Other Poems, a Volume of Sentimental Studies," by Mark André Raffalovich, and published in London in 1884.

           THE ECSTASY OF SIGHT

  Music from my delight sets to a dearer
  Tune the jungle of restless leaves and rustling
  Fancies brushing against a tired summer:
  As the flame of the daytime curls in the ashes,
  Curls and twisting up leaps to where the grass is,
  Reaching lover-like all the tossing trouble,
  Manes of grasses and crest of flowers and branches,
  Even so, love, the sweet sight of thee still leaping
  To my eyes as a flame, is trembling gladly,
  Flame of love in the vision's first delighting,
  Flame that quivers about my soul and senses!

  Flame-like now from my eyes there springs to meet thee,
  Love, there starts from me love to fold thee safely,
  Round and round in the glance's mesh and tangle,
  Safe and sweet in desire's most endless weaving,
  From the loom of the sunlight, with the threaded
  Sun's own glory or with the moonlight's languor,
  Such a cloud as may dazzle other lovers,
  Screening starrily flesh and soul and beauty,
  Flame of love in the vision's first delighting,
  Flame that quivers about my soul and senses!

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pim_derks
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« Reply #190 on: 11:55:38, 14-06-2007 »

I wish to thank Member Grew for the poem by Marc-André Raffalovich. Smiley

I'm looking forward to his next contribution to this thread.
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"People hate anything well made. It gives them a guilty conscience." John Betjeman
time_is_now
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« Reply #191 on: 12:33:28, 14-06-2007 »

Yes, we would like to add our thanks to Mr Grew.

We would also like to ask him (or any other distinguished members) whether a name has ever been given to this curious pentametrical variant SU-SUU-SU-SU-SU (where 'S' denotes a stressed syllable and 'U' an unstressed one), which we have never before noticed in even 2 or 3 consecutive lines of English poetry, never mind pursued with such restless vigour throughout 21 lines (divided into 11 and 10, in what one may even suppose to be a distant echo of the syllabic count per line).
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #192 on: 03:12:31, 15-06-2007 »

We would also like to ask him (or any other distinguished members) whether a name has ever been given to this curious pentametrical variant SU-SUU-SU-SU-SU (where 'S' denotes a stressed syllable and 'U' an unstressed one), which we have never before noticed in even 2 or 3 consecutive lines of English poetry, never mind pursued with such restless vigour throughout 21 lines (divided into 11 and 10, in what one may even suppose to be a distant echo of the syllabic count per line).

Err . . . dunno. Delete "other".
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marbleflugel
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WWW
« Reply #193 on: 10:22:49, 15-06-2007 »

This may be vague enough to be meaningless, but I have a hunch it comes from prose structures in some formof ancient rhetoric, which you'd see nowadays in advertising copy or speechwriting. Iused to have a dictionary edited in the 1920s where these forms were considered important everyday defiintions.
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Arnold Brown
time_is_now
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« Reply #194 on: 18:45:17, 20-06-2007 »

Here's some Bunting as a belated birthday present for Pim:


At Briggflatts meetinghouse

Boasts time mocks cumber Rome. Wren
set up his own monument.
Others watch fells dwindle, think
the sun's fires sink.

Stones indeed sift to sand, oak
blends with saints' bones.
Yet for a little longer here
stone and oak shelter

silence while we ask nothing
but silence. Look how clouds dance
under the wind's wing, and leaves
delight in transience.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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