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Author Topic: Pianola restoration  (Read 1115 times)
Martin
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« Reply #15 on: 19:34:05, 17-06-2008 »

Ah, most interesting. Thanks, autoharp, for that.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #16 on: 19:37:49, 17-06-2008 »

I could look this up I suppose but I'd much rather autoharp or someone explain it to me - what in fact does the pianolist actually do? Surely not just supply the motive power?
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opilec
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« Reply #17 on: 19:43:14, 17-06-2008 »

... and the constant fear among the audience that his beard will get caught in the pianola mechanism.

So I'm not the only one to have thought that? Phew!
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autoharp
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« Reply #18 on: 10:41:13, 18-06-2008 »

I could look this up I suppose but I'd much rather autoharp or someone explain it to me - what in fact does the pianolist actually do? Surely not just supply the motive power?

Er . . . I'm not the person to ask . . . but I can possibly help with some confusing terminology. My understanding is that the word PLAYER-PIANO can include both reproducing piano and pianola.

A REPRODUCING PIANO is a piano in which you chuck the roll in + press the GO button. No other action needed.

What is understood by the word PIANOLA is both a piano which contains a mechanism to play rolls which can be interpreted by someone using hands and feet - and also a "push-up" cabinet with "fingers" which can be placed in front of any piano. Here's a demo of how the latter works:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A6ZXZwl3nA

For further info go to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_piano

which has enough links to keep you off the streets for a bit.



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thompson1780
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« Reply #19 on: 08:42:42, 21-06-2008 »

Rex Lawson is in the 21 June edition of Classical Music, on page 51.  Apparently, a Pianolist controls tempo and dynamics.

Auto - thanks for reviving the beardo weirdos thread!

Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
autoharp
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« Reply #20 on: 11:05:45, 21-06-2008 »

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Ruby2
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« Reply #21 on: 09:52:56, 23-06-2008 »

I could look this up I suppose but I'd much rather autoharp or someone explain it to me - what in fact does the pianolist actually do? Surely not just supply the motive power?

Er . . . I'm not the person to ask . . . but I can possibly help with some confusing terminology. My understanding is that the word PLAYER-PIANO can include both reproducing piano and pianola.

A REPRODUCING PIANO is a piano in which you chuck the roll in + press the GO button. No other action needed.

What is understood by the word PIANOLA is both a piano which contains a mechanism to play rolls which can be interpreted by someone using hands and feet - and also a "push-up" cabinet with "fingers" which can be placed in front of any piano. Here's a demo of how the latter works:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A6ZXZwl3nA

For further info go to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_piano

which has enough links to keep you off the streets for a bit.

Thanks autoharp.  I can't access the youtube link but the Wiki article is interesting.

On our Player piano you certainly can [could] influence the tempo, partly via a sliding scale but also by the speed you pedal and the amount of travel you're using on the pedals.  You'd need the tempo controller to do fast and quiet, but you can make it more forceful and a little bit faster by just pushing more air through more quickly. Ours has no electrical control, so it's all leg work.

Unfortunately having tested it last week it hardly moves at all, so there are some serious leaks happening somewhere.   Sad
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"Two wrongs don't make a right.  But three rights do make a left." - Rohan Candappa
pianola
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« Reply #22 on: 14:15:33, 30-06-2008 »

This is Rex Lawson, rather surprised at finding himself on this message board. Thank you for telling me about Classical Music mag - I'll run out and buy a copy over lunch.

The trouble with these forums is that I am not good at replying sometimes, but if you want advice about restoration and playing, I'll look at this page every now and then, especially in the next few days. I'm curious to know who the folk are who know me!

Playing the pianola is an anti-logarithmic experience, just like the cost of buying hi-fi used to be. You can play the right notes in two minutes, you can probably get your mum to smile and say how nice it sounds after two days. Winning the AMICA pumper contest (don't ask for the gory details) entails pizzazz rather than musicianship, and putting yourself on YouTube has more to do with ambition than anything else - that isn't limited to the pianola, of course.

It's a rotten career, because 90% of the world thinks you are a charlatan, even though they readily accept conductors, who actually play no notes at all. I made the rolls for Rachmaninov's Third Piano Concerto last year and played them with the Flemish Radio Symphony. John Tusa, a very kindly man, was the only one who reported on it, and he said how good it was to hear Rachmaninov play. Well, it wasn't Rachmaninov, but that's how it goes with pianolas.

Following a conductor in the likes of Paul Usher's Nancarrow Concerto needs a lot of practice. The rhythm of the pianola part runs at completely different tempi from the conductor's beat, so I have to try to keep my markings on the roll exactly in step with the beat, while accenting at almost randomly spaced intervals which have nothing obvious to do with the rest of the music. I should say that the overall effect is wonderful, and I think Paul is one of the country's most under-rated composers. All right, I have to say this, because he is coming to lunch later in the week.

We need new pianola players, really quite desperately, but in my view we need them to come from the world of musicians, and not the world of collectors. Just as it is with any other instrument, you need a trained musical background.

Pianola
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Ruby2
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« Reply #23 on: 14:49:58, 30-06-2008 »

This is Rex Lawson, rather surprised at finding himself on this message board. Thank you for telling me about Classical Music mag - I'll run out and buy a copy over lunch.

The trouble with these forums is that I am not good at replying sometimes, but if you want advice about restoration and playing, I'll look at this page every now and then, especially in the next few days. I'm curious to know who the folk are who know me!
Hi there - great to hear from you!
I've updated myself in the wrong order and replied to the "Welcome to Pianola" thread before I saw your post here.

Interesting stuff about playing the pianola in a concert environment.  Sounds quite a challenge!

I'm specifically interested in how I can go about diagnosing the location of an air leak (or possibly several).  Is there anything clever you can do or is it a case of recruiting a friend to pedal and just feeling around the tubes and bellows?

Any advice welcome - thanks!
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"Two wrongs don't make a right.  But three rights do make a left." - Rohan Candappa
autoharp
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« Reply #24 on: 16:24:00, 30-06-2008 »

Hi there Rex and welcome to the forum!

You'll find me somewhere in

http://r3ok.myforum365.com/index.php?topic=3035.msg118607#msg118607
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Ruby2
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« Reply #25 on: 10:22:04, 01-07-2008 »

Ruby2, I'm out of practice with other people's repairs, but your piano looks like either a Triumph Auto or a Higel. The tubes to your wind motor governor could certainly do with being replaced. Grin You can still buy decent rubber tube of the right sizes from W. Mannering and Co, in Bellingham, south-east London - http://www.mannering-rubber.co.uk.

In general terms, pianola repairs are not difficult, but they are time-consuming. Those who do it for a living don't get rich, because customers don't really believe the time it takes. For the piano side of things, you can obtain piano sundries from Heckshers in Camden Town - http://www.uk-piano.org/heckscher. Rubbercloth is not as easy to find as it used to be. Rick Alabaster in Australia used to sell good cloth, and you'll find his details if you scroll down the page here - http://www.player-care.com/supplies.html.
Thanks for all that, and for the extra info you sent by PM.  Much appreciated.  Smiley

Apologies for my ignorance, but if it says "J Wallis & Son London" on the casing is that a maker separate from the mechanism by say Triumph Auto or Higel, or an alternative (so would the whole be mde by Wallis & Son?)  Is it like having a Pentium Processor in a Dell, or is it just a Dell, end of story?

Does this help?

Here's more tubing. It's meant to have been replaced but maybe my uncle (who is not an expert) missed some. Is this sort of tubing suitable?  Sorry if it's impossible to say from the photo...


Sorry about another barrage of questions...
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"Two wrongs don't make a right.  But three rights do make a left." - Rohan Candappa
pianola
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« Reply #26 on: 23:32:28, 01-07-2008 »

Ruby, it's definitely a Higel, which means that the player mechanism was made by Otto Higel of Toronto. Quite a few Higel actions turn up in Britain, and it's possible that bits of it were made here, especially if it's post-First War, by which time import duties were being charged.

There must have been a Higel workshop in the London area, just as there was a Simplex workshop near Stoke Newington. Wallis and Son would have made a piano that had the extra depth to take the player action. They are not a name I know, but I'm no expert on piano makers. Probably the piano went to the Higel workshop to have the player installed - that's generally how it happened, though I'm sure individual makers could have bought in player actions if they wanted to.

The first three listed patents are British, though that only means that they are copies of original Canadian patents. The number of the last one doesn't fit, so it may be Canadian, for all I know. I have summaries of the first three if you are interested.

Higel made rolls too, though they don't turn up in England very often. You occasionally see them on Ebay.

It is difficult to tell too much about tubing without looking at it in the flesh, so to speak. But you aren't in a hurry, are you? Our Pianola Journal is printed by an old established firm in your fair city, and we travel up there a couple of times a year (with cream cakes for the workforce) to deliver and check the typesetting. We shall be up by September at the latest. Perhaps a quick viewing would be more effective than a thousand words, as they say?

Cheers, Pianola
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ahinton
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« Reply #27 on: 23:52:00, 01-07-2008 »

John Tusa, a very kindly man, was the only one who reported on it, and he said how good it was to hear Rachmaninov play. Well, it wasn't Rachmaninov, but that's how it goes with pianolas.
Ah, yes - Rachmaninov. Some Russian child. Hmm. Go on, then - I dare you! Forum members will be both delighted and educated to hear (filll in the blanks...)...

Best,

Alistair
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pianola
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« Reply #28 on: 11:44:28, 02-07-2008 »

Alistair, you are such a kind man. We might form a double act on the stage.

Well, then. The vast majority of player piano rolls were not recorded by anyone, at least not in the way we tend to define recording nowadays. The recording angel does not sit at the keyboard of a Steinway or Bosendorfer, but simply records names in a ledger.

Most rolls were made by people drawing pencil lines on blank master rolls, by reference to the sheet music, after which other workers used hammers and punches to create the perforations. The duration of individual notes was reckoned on an almost metronomic basis, so that one crotchet might equal half an inch, say. This regularity was quite deliberate, in that the intention was to provide a basis for individual pianolists to create their own interpretations. We have no equivalent of this today. Computers generally have to be programmed in advance.

I attended a performance of Stravinsky's "Les Noces" (1919 version) in Paris two years ago which pretty much reduced me to tears. The player piano part had been programmed on to a MIDI device, which in turn fed a Yamaha Disklavier. There was no means of the MIDI instrument following the conductor, and in any case the Disklavier imposes a 500 millisecond delay on all incoming MIDI, in order to give it time to play the quiet notes, which are slower to sound, at the same moment as the loud ones. The conductor wore headphones which gave him a "click" track, and the performers all followed him rigorously, and with palpable nervousness, since, if they had once lost their synchronism, there would have been no way of getting back in.

The wonderful spontaneity of Les Noces, the moments of elation, of drunkenness, of pathos, were all completely lost, because there was no time for anyone to breathe. And of course, the pianola unfairly took the blame. Someone will reply that Les Noces has an inexorable onward momentum, so let's agree that, while the ritualistic rhythm takes precedence, it should still allow individual singers the odd brief split second of emphasis. Otherwise it might as well be performed by robots.

We all take breath and pause during our spoken conversations, and so it should be with most music. Every tiny accent which we make in music has its corresponding hesitation. This is something that generally only pianola players learn, because the inflections are so small that pianists use them instinctively - they are simply part of their humanity. Someone completely new to the pianola will make it sound mechanical in very obvious ways, because they will not understand that one needs to pedal in step with the music, or that fewer notes need less effort for the same dynamic. More experienced players sometimes fail to throw off the mechanical quality, because they accent without the corresponding hesitation, and so the flow of the music sounds irregular.

Anyway, to return from my digression, since we were talking about Rachmaninov, I simply (well, perhaps not so simply!) made the rolls from the score, by transcribing them on to a computer program which I wrote many years ago, whose files I can now send by serial transfer to a PC, which in turn operates a perforating machine, thanks to the expertise of a good friend. I enter the details, punch by punch, by pressing various keys on the computer keyboard.

In performance, like any other pianolist, I create the dynamics with my feet, set the speed and rubato with my right hand, and balance treble against bass, melody against accompaniment with my left hand, which also operates the sustaining pedal. Playing Nancarrow is incredibly simple, since the rolls are intended to run at a constant speed, and the dynamics are based on terrace levels. Since most audiences have no clue about what a pianolist does, they usually applaud on the basis of perceived sweat. George Antheil's "Ballet Mecanique" is great for this, because there are three long rolls that are all full of loud repeated chords, and one is completely dripping by the end. Even the most ascetic of audiences likes to endue its performers with just a little heroism, and sweat has the appearance of valiance!

I like the way Rachmaninov plays his own music, so my interpretation of his Third Concerto owes something to him, though I have my own ideas as well, and anyway, one is influenced by the conductor and the audience. I tend not to play wrong notes, of course, and I do play all the notes, which is probably quite unusual in that concerto. Funnily enough, at the very end there is an ossia of either triplet or quadruplet octaves in both hands, and of course I chose the latter. In rehearsal the conductor (Yoel Levi) stopped me and tactfully enquired whether I might have transcribed the music incorrectly. He was stunned to realise that such an ossia existed, because in his whole career he had never heard anyone play it.

I should say that Rachmaninov at one time played the Pianola himself. There was an instrument at Ivanovka, and his sister-in-law remembered his pedalling, with some glee, the three rolls of his Second Piano Concerto (orchestra included) published by the Aeolian Company in London. I suspect he did this at the time he was writing the Third, and I wonder whether the final ossia, and one or two other fiendishly agile passages, owe something to his enthusiastic use of the tempo control.

Anyway, that's enough for today. Alistair, the best to you too, and it's about time you pointed me towards the Sorabji thread!
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martle
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« Reply #29 on: 11:51:27, 02-07-2008 »

Truly fascinating, pianola. Thank you.
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