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Poll
Question: Should rudimentary notation be a compulsory part of the GCSE course
Yes - 22 (100%)
No - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 21

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Author Topic: Western notation as a part of the Music GCSE  (Read 829 times)
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #30 on: 22:54:27, 11-08-2008 »

This can help avoid confusion later on for the eagle-eyed ones who spot that the crotchet showing C on a treble clef is, actually, positioned lower than the one showing A.

Yeah, but do they win the 2p if they get it right?  Perhaps if you made it £2 instead of 2p you'd have them all singing Allegri's Miserere at sight in a couple of months Wink   Start them singing on a truly "professional" basis Smiley

Does anyone still use Kodaly hand-signing, or is that old hat these days?
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
richard barrett
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« Reply #31 on: 23:03:14, 11-08-2008 »

Then I haven't been clear.

The first thought was: given that educational philosophies take a certain amount of time to translate "events on the ground" into styles of teaching, structures of curricula, contents of classrooms and so forth, they are bound, especially in times of rapid technological change like this one, going to be behind the game. So, for example, though there may be a movement towards a "post-literate" culture in which items of knowledge can be searched out on the internet when needed rather than learned, in which musical notation is no longer connected with pencil and paper, and so on, that isn't going to be reflected in educational practice until a future time when things will have moved on further. That doesn't seem much more clear to me than what I said before, but I hope it's clear that I wasn't trying to say what you thought I was saying.

The second thought was: the way education works in our society, as PW said in this post, is to have "children in uniform sitting behind desks being prepared for a life of sitting in uniform behind desks". That's the reality, not my ideal!
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owain
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« Reply #32 on: 23:31:49, 11-08-2008 »

This can help avoid confusion later on for the eagle-eyed ones who spot that the crotchet showing C on a treble clef is, actually, positioned lower than the one showing A.

Yeah, but do they win the 2p if they get it right?  Perhaps if you made it £2 instead of 2p you'd have them all singing Allegri's Miserere at sight in a couple of months Wink   Start them singing on a truly "professional" basis Smiley
I've been tempted by such thoughts in the past Cheesy

Quote
Does anyone still use Kodaly hand-signing, or is that old hat these days?
Leave things long enough, and they come back into fashion.  I saw a colleague using it only a few weeks ago (with cornets playing five-note melodies), I know others who do make use of it, and it's something I wish I was more familiar with.

The first thought was: given that educational philosophies take a certain amount of time to translate "events on the ground" into styles of teaching, structures of curricula, contents of classrooms and so forth, they are bound, especially in times of rapid technological change like this one, going to be behind the game. So, for example, though there may be a movement towards a "post-literate" culture in which items of knowledge can be searched out on the internet when needed rather than learned, in which musical notation is no longer connected with pencil and paper, and so on, that isn't going to be reflected in educational practice until a future time when things will have moved on further.
There seems to be several elements to this.  The first is the general question of adjusting education to fit with realities.  There's a danger that this overlaps into politician-style tinkering, with a desire to see immediate results.  The reality is that even a fundamental change in education will not produce noticeable results for the wider world in anything less than a decade or two.  Even if education does keep pace with technological progress, the impression can be that it is not doing so - an 18-year-old leaving school today obviously can't have been taught using today's technology for the past fourteen years!

There's also perhaps the fact that some parts of education are by their very nature backward-looking, and I mean this without it having automatically negative connotations, and music notation certainly is a point where this is prominent.  It is very much about connections with traditions, not only those of European notated music, but also the interdependent ones of instruments themselves.  While I accept that we might move to a point where notation is at least far less connected with the physical act of creating it, nonetheless I am sure that actually putting pencil to paper will remain an invaluable way of understanding how various aspects of notation came into being.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #33 on: 23:39:28, 11-08-2008 »

While I accept that we might move to a point where notation is at least far less connected with the physical act of creating it, nonetheless I am sure that actually putting pencil to paper will remain an invaluable way of understanding how various aspects of notation came into being.
I'm sure you're right, I was just wandering off into hypothetical musings really.

It has often struck me that whenever politicians tinker with education policy, they do so for the usual self-serving and short-term reasons and the results are invariably a shambles which teachers then have somehow to make sense of.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #34 on: 00:20:17, 12-08-2008 »

I'm not entirely convinced that changes in educational approach are always directly the result of government strictures - I do think some come from within the educational world itself - though many occur as an indirect result of government policies, especially as affect the financial situation of educational establishments.

That said, in terms of higher education there has been a significant increase in numbers of students entering higher education in recent times. Now some might say that's a mixed blessing - because it has arguably entailed a lowering of standards in order to make it possible for more to enter - but all things told I do think it's a positive development (there's a big problem when higher education was the preserve of a very small elite - which it was up until the 1960s, in much of Europe, and still was to an extent up until recent times). And a system that aims for a wider section of the populace is going to entail changes, different priorities from those which suited the higher classes that were previously the primary beneficiaries. And in my experience, it's often students and parents who are pushing for a different, more 'relevant' approach to education, or else they will vote with their feet. Now, we might say that they don't necessarily know what's best for them, but should we really disregard their wishes? Which are often much more career-focused than we might like.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
oliver sudden
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« Reply #35 on: 02:40:49, 12-08-2008 »

Maybe someone needs to work on a musical analogue to the International Phonetic Alphabet (which can, at least in theory, encode the sounds of any possible spoken language to any desired degree of accuracy).
I thought we more or less had that, though... the darker corners of the IPA if anything are probably even more obscure than inventing new shapes of accidentals or plonking microtones in cents over the top of the notes, no?

(Sorry to reply so late. Haven't much choice in this time zone.)
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richard barrett
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« Reply #36 on: 08:34:02, 12-08-2008 »

the darker corners of the IPA if anything are probably even more obscure than inventing new shapes of accidentals or plonking microtones in cents over the top of the notes, no?

That's as may be, but they're standardised and available in downloadable fonts.
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A
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« Reply #37 on: 17:32:56, 18-08-2008 »

Both these threads started on the original idea about notation have gone round in circles and I now have no idea where to make a comment on the actual title. I posted on the other thread this afternoon but it changed after I had done so.... very confused !!

So, I just register that notation should definitely be taught to any musician, but especially GCSE students. It is not rocket science!!!!!!!!

A
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Well, there you are.
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