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trained-pianist
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« Reply #75 on: 17:07:28, 10-05-2007 » |
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David_Underdown,
What area of math are you doing? Is it abstract algebra or topology? Or is it something else?
I am just curious.
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David_Underdown
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« Reply #76 on: 19:13:13, 10-05-2007 » |
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Towards the end of my degree I was tending towards Group Theory, Number Theory and Analysis; but it's a while ago now, now I just work in IT, and as hinted in a previous post, my clsoest connection to higher mathematics is bell ringing.
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David
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #77 on: 21:14:00, 10-05-2007 » |
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Well there seems to be some sort of link, even if not an obvious one, jsut look at the number of people on this board popping up with maths degrees (me too incidentally)
Me too! And I thought I was the only maths graduate in the village (apart from Ian Pace). Maths and music? I'm just too busy at work to contribute anything deep to this thread but I agree with Tommo's postings most of all. |
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George Garnett
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« Reply #78 on: 21:34:48, 10-05-2007 » |
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I'm only half a maths graduate if we are totting up the numbers: Maths and Philosophy in my case.
Ah, those long hot summer afternoons before the war, lounging by the river with no sound to break the silence but the gentle creakings of the foundations of mathematics.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #79 on: 21:37:28, 10-05-2007 » |
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And I thought I was the only maths graduate in the village I'd always remembered you being an English graduate, Tony? |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #80 on: 21:39:08, 10-05-2007 » |
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I'm only half a maths graduate if we are totting up the numbers: Maths and Philosophy in my case. Aha - thought I'd smelt another one. So how many of us are there here? |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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martle
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« Reply #81 on: 21:41:53, 10-05-2007 » |
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Ah, those long hot summer afternoons before the war Which war, George?  |
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Green. Always green.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #82 on: 21:45:46, 10-05-2007 » |
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Boer, of course! I remember later the news of the Relief of Mafeking coming over the wires as I reclined on the banks of the Cherwell, crumpet in one hand, punt-pole in the other....
(Half-trained-mathematician)
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« Last Edit: 23:13:53, 10-05-2007 by George Garnett »
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #83 on: 21:49:46, 10-05-2007 » |
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Not meaning to nit-pick here (to use the word of the day!), but isn't the very fact of a claim being 'within pure mathematics itself' already something contingent, so that the truths ascertained are relative? This may turn into a competition to see whose nits are bigger. (Men, eh? You leave 'em alone for five minutes...  ) But even if the first part of that is true (and I think it is only true in a trivial linguistic sense) I don't think the second part follows from it at all. You could have different views as to what does or doesn't come within the purview of 'pure mathematics' (in particular the thorny question of whether mathematics and formal logic are co-extensive or not) but that wouldn't itself have any bearing on the issue of whether individual propositions within that scope are, or are not, necessarily true or false. No, it wouldn't, but doesn't the very fact of being 'within that scope' make the 'truth' in question contingent (that may be a 'trivial linguistic' point, I just believe that the role of language as a precondition for certain types of reasoning is very significant)? I'm only pressing this point because a very pure philosophical point is at stake - whether mathematical truths can be absolutely objective in a way that aesthetic truths can't. But that perhaps depends what we are referring to by 'aesthetic truths'. If we say 'X is beautiful' and we have a clear definition of the 'beautiful' which X can be found unequivocally to satisfy, then isn't that an objective truth, relative only to the particular concept of the 'beautiful' which is at stake? FWIW I do think it is vital to keep a distinction between mathematics and metamathematics to avoid conceptual confusion ('confusion' also needing to be distinguished from 'radical scepticism'  ). And, while I don't know whether there is some Polynesian island as yet unsullied by anthropologists where there is no concept of multiplication, it seems unlikely, for example, that cows, dogs have such a concept. But it is perfectly possible, and essential, to distinguish that fact from questions of whether mathematical propositions are necessarily true or false. If you were pursuing the latter question, interviewing cows might be seen as, well, an eccentric approach - even by the standards of maths departments. (Hmm. Maybe not? Perhaps I haven't thought this one through). Aha - empirical testing! The question I was trying to ask here was whether something like a mathematical proposition can have an objective truth that is independent of its manifestations in the minds of human beings. If not, then can such a proposition be said to be objectively true when the very concept many not exist for some humans? Is it even possible that (eek) some mathematical/scientific truths may be cultural constructs? I remember a similar debate elsewhere on whether the statement 'the sky is blue', or something like that, can be said to be objectively true for those whose language and culture does not have a singular concept for blue (as in Italian, for example, which has azzurro and blu - I believe Russian is similar?). |
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« Last Edit: 22:00:42, 10-05-2007 by Ian Pace »
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #84 on: 21:57:52, 10-05-2007 » |
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To me, there is something about language here - what do we mean by the words 'one', 'two' and 'zero'? i don't think I start from the same axioms that Russell did.
That sets me wondering about another possibility - are there any languages that do not have a concept of 'zero'? |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #85 on: 22:14:02, 10-05-2007 » |
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And I thought I was the only maths graduate in the village I'd always remembered you being an English graduate, Tony? As you've mentioned it, Ian, I'm now BA, BSc since I last saw you. English first, but then I took a degree in maths, mostly pure. |
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« Last Edit: 10:22:21, 11-05-2007 by Tony Watson »
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #86 on: 22:18:29, 10-05-2007 » |
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As you've mentioned it, Ian, I'm now BA, BSc since I last saw you. English first, though really I was a medievalist - mostly Anglo-Saxon, Old Norse and medieval literature. Then after leaving Manchester I took a degree in maths, mostly pure - including topology, number theory, Galois theory and computability and logic.
Wow, that's really impressive. So we were both doing a maths degree around about the same time, then? |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #87 on: 23:07:41, 10-05-2007 » |
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... crumpet in one hand, punt-pole in the other....
 ..and then the news came through, not just of the Relief of Mafeking, but more importantly - there would be NO MORE CUSTARD!!! |
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thompson1780
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« Reply #88 on: 23:40:10, 10-05-2007 » |
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.......as I reclined on the banks of the Cherwell, crumpet in one hand, punt-pole in the other....
Ah, you're a wrong ender then? Roslynmuse - custard reference is just brilliant! Tommo |
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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thompson1780
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« Reply #89 on: 23:45:33, 10-05-2007 » |
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To me, there is something about language here - what do we mean by the words 'one', 'two' and 'zero'? i don't think I start from the same axioms that Russell did.
That sets me wondering about another possibility - are there any languages that do not have a concept of 'zero'? Well, zero was introduced to western europe from India via the arab infidels, so presumably Olde English (pre-crusades) fits the bill..... One for Tony in his capacity as an English Scholar, I guess. Tommo |
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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