|
ahinton
|
 |
« Reply #30 on: 12:09:18, 09-07-2007 » |
|
Imagine if you will our great-aunt's attempting to run a mile!
Like most readers here (I imagine), I find that the uniquely Grewesque use of personal pronouns remains a matter of no small degree of confusion; it is accordingly unclear in this context who "our" great-aunt may be. It is certainly true that Member Grew and I do not share a great-aunt (since he and I are unrelated) and I imagine that few if any other members here do so either. That said, a friend who is in his 30s has a great-aunt who is two days younger than he is, so the notion of someone's great-aunt running a mile might not necessarily be quite as absurd as the Member Grew appears to imply in any case... Best, Alistair |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: 14:04:49, 09-07-2007 by ahinton »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
oliver sudden
|
|
« Reply #31 on: 12:14:12, 09-07-2007 » |
|
a rather fine work for string quartet and orchestra
Elgar, of course. And the Vaughan Williams Tallis Fantasia has a solo quartet in it. And that as far as I'm concerned is one of the best pieces by anyone ever.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Ron Dough
|
|
« Reply #32 on: 12:26:32, 09-07-2007 » |
|
Whereas Tippett characteristically misses out by going for three out of four twice (and differing combinations) in the Corelli Fantasia (two violins and cello) and the Triple Concerto (violin, viola and cello), which is strings plus other instruments rather than strings against strings. I don't have the score to hand but doesn't the third Ritual Dance from The Midsummer Marriage pit a string quartet against the rest of the orchestra?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
smittims
|
|
« Reply #33 on: 12:29:34, 09-07-2007 » |
|
Both Howells''Elegy'and Concerto for strings,have a solo quartet. Howells openly admitted his sources were the 'Tallis'fantasia and Elgar's op.47.
Bliss' 'Music for Strings' is one of a number of string orchestra works which include solo passages for violins,viola and cello but not specifically as a quartet set against the ripieno.
Stravinsky's 'Capriccio' for piano and orchestra features a solo 'concertino' of violin,viola, cello and double bass.
And of course Walton's 'Sonata for Strings' ,which I'm told is really Malcolm Arnold's arrangement of the Walton Quartet in A minor, features a solo quartet set agaianst the ripieno string orchestra.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Ron Dough
|
|
« Reply #34 on: 12:35:40, 09-07-2007 » |
|
Older readers may remember an RCA LP of the Concerto for String Quartet and Orchestra by Benjamin Lees.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Sydney Grew
Guest
|
|
« Reply #35 on: 12:43:25, 09-07-2007 » |
|
. . .. the discussion might benefit from some way of establishing what exactly this word "melody" actually means. But Professor Hullah defined melody as long ago as 1852, in the Preface to his " Grammar of Harmony." "There are some terms," he tells us, "belonging to every art or science which, though convenient or indispensable to adepts, are a source of embarrassment to beginners. In music, the distinctions between harmony and melody, and between melody and counterpoint, are among these. A succession of individual sounds, and a succession of combinations of sounds, are obviously different things, and as such they require different designations, - the very existence of which makes it difficult to appreciate the fact that the things designated, though different, must never be considered separately. For, a succession of sounds can hardly be recognised as melody, unless it be capable of proof, by the addition of that harmony of which it is only one part; while a succession of combinations of sounds will be unworthy of the name of harmony, unless the various parts of which it is composed be individually melodious. Certain it is that a musician never conceives melody without associating it with harmony, as he never hears harmony without being able to trace out more or less of the melody which it must of necessity contain." He is quite close is he not? Those "successions of individual sounds" he describes we hear in Stockhausen and many other moderns, and they are are not melodious in the slightest degree are they! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Biroc
|
|
« Reply #36 on: 12:52:08, 09-07-2007 » |
|
"Melody" is a term used fro around 1290 as I understood it. From the Greek "melos" which I also take to mean "line". All regardless of the re-appropriation of the word by Prof Hullah...
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Believe nothing they say, they're not Biroc's kind."
|
|
|
|
richard barrett
Guest
|
|
« Reply #37 on: 12:56:48, 09-07-2007 » |
|
He is quite close is he not? Not in the least. "Harmony" is something which exists only in Western music of the past few hundred years. "Melody" predates it by millennia and is also found in practically every musical culture in the world, although I dare say a Victorian "gentleman composer" like John Pyke Hullah could hardly be expected to know that. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
time_is_now
|
|
« Reply #38 on: 13:02:46, 09-07-2007 » |
|
Imagine if you will our great-aunt's attempting to run a mile!
Like most readers here (I imagine), the uniquely Grewesque use of personal pronouns remains a matter of no small degree of confusion; it is accordingly unclear in this context who "our" great-aunt may be. It is certainly true that Member Grew and I do not share a great-aunt (since he and I are unrelated) and I imagine that few if any other members here do so either. That said, a friend who is in his 30s has a great-aunt who is two days younger than he is, so the notion of someone's great-aunt running a mile might not necessarily be quite as absurd as the Member Grew appears to imply in any case... Alistair, would you like to elaborate on the suggestion in your first sentence that 'most readers here ... [are] a matter of no small degree of confusion'? As for your last point, last week I walked past a gym called the Queen Mother Sports Centre, which left me with visions of 101-year-old ladies in violet leggings working away on exercise bikes. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
|
|
|
|
oliver sudden
|
|
« Reply #39 on: 13:11:51, 09-07-2007 » |
|
"Harmony" is something which exists only in Western music of the past few hundred years.
Er, Richard, I've just had a call from a chap called Pythagoras who sounded a bit miffed... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
increpatio
|
|
« Reply #40 on: 13:13:05, 09-07-2007 » |
|
As for your last point, last week I walked past a gym called the Queen Mother Sports Centre, which left me with visions of 101-year-old ladies in violet leggings working away on exercise bikes.
Which has in turn left me with an image of exercise bikes with those sit-in hair dryer-attachments:  . |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Evan Johnson
|
|
« Reply #41 on: 14:02:02, 09-07-2007 » |
|
I'm not the right person either. But it seems to me the discussion might benefit from some way of establishing what exactly this word "melody" actually means. One person's melody might be another person's sequence of disjointed noises, as has often been evidenced here. Equally, one person's Unendlichkeit might be another's blink of an eye.
On another tack, there aren't many pieces for string quartet and orchestra, are there? On the evidence of the few I know (Martinu, Lachenmann, Feldman) it would seem to be something with a lot of mileage in it, and in many different directions.
In answer to the Member's original question, though, I'm not sure whether there in fact are any "undisputed masterpieces".
Just as an aside Richard, there is also a rather fine work for string quartet and orchestra by Lyell Cresswell. Well, I enjoyed it at least... Herr Google also reveals pieces by Rihm, Terry Riley, David Diamond, Gunther Schuller, Richard Danielpour, a slew of people I've never heard of, and (surprisingly) Ludwig Spohr. The concept would seem to be of particular interest to Americans, for some reason. Whether any of them are "masterpieces," "disputed" or otherwise, I would have no idea. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Biroc
|
|
« Reply #42 on: 14:05:34, 09-07-2007 » |
|
I'm not the right person either. But it seems to me the discussion might benefit from some way of establishing what exactly this word "melody" actually means. One person's melody might be another person's sequence of disjointed noises, as has often been evidenced here. Equally, one person's Unendlichkeit might be another's blink of an eye.
On another tack, there aren't many pieces for string quartet and orchestra, are there? On the evidence of the few I know (Martinu, Lachenmann, Feldman) it would seem to be something with a lot of mileage in it, and in many different directions.
In answer to the Member's original question, though, I'm not sure whether there in fact are any "undisputed masterpieces".
Just as an aside Richard, there is also a rather fine work for string quartet and orchestra by Lyell Cresswell. Well, I enjoyed it at least... Herr Google also reveals pieces by Rihm, Terry Riley, David Diamond, Gunther Schuller, Richard Danielpour, a slew of people I've never heard of, and (surprisingly) Ludwig Spohr. The concept would seem to be of particular interest to Americans, for some reason. Whether any of them are "masterpieces," "disputed" or otherwise, I would have no idea. Indeed my friend, we shouldn't miss out the venerable John Casken of the UK who wrote one for the Lindsays... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Believe nothing they say, they're not Biroc's kind."
|
|
|
|
ahinton
|
|
« Reply #43 on: 14:10:38, 09-07-2007 » |
|
Imagine if you will our great-aunt's attempting to run a mile!
Like most readers here (I imagine), the uniquely Grewesque use of personal pronouns remains a matter of no small degree of confusion; it is accordingly unclear in this context who "our" great-aunt may be. It is certainly true that Member Grew and I do not share a great-aunt (since he and I are unrelated) and I imagine that few if any other members here do so either. That said, a friend who is in his 30s has a great-aunt who is two days younger than he is, so the notion of someone's great-aunt running a mile might not necessarily be quite as absurd as the Member Grew appears to imply in any case... Alistair, would you like to elaborate on the suggestion in your first sentence that 'most readers here ... [are] a matter of no small degree of confusion'? This requires not so much "elaboration" as "correction", since I left out some crucial words: what I should have written was "Like most readers here (I imagine), I find that the uniquely Grewesque use of personal pronouns remains a matter of no small degree of confusion". I refer, of course, the the Grewish use of the not necessarily royal "we" in contexts that appear to be clear only to him. I hope that this clears up any further confusion that I may have added... As for your last point, last week I walked past a gym called the Queen Mother Sports Centre, which left me with visions of 101-year-old ladies in violet leggings working away on exercise bikes.
...holding gym and tonics in one hand while grabbing one of the handlebars with the other, presumably... Best, Alistair |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
oliver sudden
|
|
« Reply #44 on: 14:16:14, 09-07-2007 » |
|
while grabbing one of the handlebars with the other, presumably...  Introducing Mr P. Dantry. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
