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Author Topic: The Contrapuntal Ingenuity Olympics  (Read 506 times)
Turfan Fragment
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Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #15 on: 16:17:53, 19-04-2008 »

There's Haydn's Symphony 47. In the third movement the music is played forwards and then backwards note for note, in four sections. The whole of the slow movement is an old organ point written in double counterpoint at the octave. No, I don't really know what that last sentence means; I just copied it from the sleeve notes, but I thought you'd like to know.
When were the sleeve notes written?

The remarkable thing about Haydn's contrapuntally ingenious minuets is that they're still full-blown minuets, i.e., contain main themes, transitions, subsidiary-key material, contrasting middle sections, dominant preparations (if he wants them) and recapitulations with a subdominant turn. See also his D minor string quartet op76/2 (wherein, admittedly, the trio is the opposite of a canon, if you will).
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Turfan Fragment
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Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #16 on: 16:28:56, 19-04-2008 »

With the death of IMSLP I can't post what I'd like to post Cry, but if you know Brahms' motet "Schaffe in mir Gott, ein rein Herz" -- the beginning is a canon in augmentation btw Bass and Soprano. When the sopranos are finished, the basses are only halfway through, so the sopranos go back and start at the beginning.

In lieu of a score:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9qFCt4gzaw
(Warning: amateur choir  Wink )


And the "Verwirf mich nicht" is a VERY nice fugue with stretti and inversions in all sorts of combinations to rival or at least match old JSB in ingenuity.
« Last Edit: 16:08:52, 20-04-2008 by Turfan Fragment » Logged

Baz
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« Reply #17 on: 16:32:18, 19-04-2008 »

And then there is good old Josquin! See if you can work this one out (transcription provided).



Baz
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martle
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« Reply #18 on: 17:13:31, 19-04-2008 »

2:3:6
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Green. Always green.
Turfan Fragment
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Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #19 on: 21:08:18, 19-04-2008 »


Baz
Great! Let's sing this one together

martle on the middle part, Baz can take the highest part, and I'll sing bassus. But let's transpose down a fourth. The high A is not Baz's best note.

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Tony Watson
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« Reply #20 on: 22:57:09, 19-04-2008 »

There's Haydn's Symphony 47. In the third movement the music is played forwards and then backwards note for note, in four sections. The whole of the slow movement is an old organ point written in double counterpoint at the octave. No, I don't really know what that last sentence means; I just copied it from the sleeve notes, but I thought you'd like to know.

When were the sleeve notes written?


In the 1970s, I suppose. They're from the complete set of symphonies Dorati recorded for Decca then.
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Baz
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« Reply #21 on: 23:30:05, 19-04-2008 »


Baz
Great! Let's sing this one together

martle on the middle part, Baz can take the highest part, and I'll sing bassus. But let's transpose down a fourth. The high A is not Baz's best note.



OK - ready: 1-2-3... sorry... 1 and 2 and... sorry... 1 and 1... drat, sorry...

Sing it yourselves then!  Shocked Shocked Shocked
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #22 on: 08:24:18, 20-04-2008 »

I'm up for the top part where it is if it helps  Wink

1-2-3-
1--2--
1----- ...
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Reiner Torheit
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WWW
« Reply #23 on: 15:24:42, 20-04-2008 »

I'm up for the top part where it is if it helps  Wink

1-2-3-
1--2--
1----- ...

OFFTOPIC ASIDE
Q: How many tenors does it take to sing the top part of a Josquin canon?

A: Eleven.  One to sing it, and ten others to say how they would have done it better Wink
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Turfan Fragment
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Posts: 1330


Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #24 on: 16:13:31, 20-04-2008 »

I messed up the youtube of Brahms and have now fixed it in the original post.

What makes that mensural canon less remarkable than the Dufay is that it only involves 2 of the voices, with the middle 2 'filling in' the harmonies, but what makes it more of a feat is that the soprano part is (1) harmonized essentially in 2 different ways, and (2) the first harmonization uses the first half of said line at half-speed, while the second harmonization uses the second half of the line, rather than engaging (as is Dufay's wont) in free counterpoint once the faster voices are 'finished'.

We'll see what the olympic committee says.
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