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Author Topic: National Anthems in music  (Read 1513 times)
oliver sudden
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« Reply #15 on: 15:42:03, 06-04-2007 »

Anyone here a have a certain guilty affection for the scene in Casablanca where the Germans come into Rick's and start singing something patriotic which is eventually overwhelmed by Victor Laszlo getting everyone else to sing La Marseillaise? I had a French girlfriend for a couple of years - she hadn't seen it and when we rectified that situation said it was the first time that tune had moved her. (At least, positively.)

The (other!) interesting thing for me there is that La Grande Illusion (now there's a film) has the same tunes but next to each other. I wonder if it was a coincidence? Or did someone see it and realise that they can fit on top of each other?
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Soundwave
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« Reply #16 on: 18:34:14, 06-04-2007 »

Ho, Gottschalk:-

Grande Fantaisie Triomphale sur L´Hymne National Brasilien and Variations on the Portuguese National Hymn for Piano & Orchestra are only a couple of works by this travelling composer that use national anthems.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #17 on: 19:10:29, 06-04-2007 »

The national anthem of Israel is based on a theme from Smetana's Vltava, is it not? (Anyone know what the connection is? I don't.)
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #18 on: 19:21:16, 06-04-2007 »

The finale of Rossini's Il viaggio a Reims includes a variety of national songs - the English milord sings (in Italian) an elaborated version of God save the King, after apologizing that as an Englishman he only knows one song.  Sung by that all American boy, Samuel Ramey, on the recording I have.

I am very fond of Rossini, and it pains me to be aware that the politics of Il viaggio are exclusively pro-Bourbon, and therefore anti-democratic.  The French characters cannot possibly sing La Marseillaise in the circumstances, but according to the commentators Rossini worked it into their accompaniment.

Il viaggio ends with the same splendid French monarchical tune that ends The Sleeping Beauty, Vive Henri Quatre.

Rossini does appeal to democratic sentiment in William Tell, of course, but A) I have yet to learn to love that work and B) he gave up writing operas immediately after.
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« Reply #19 on: 19:35:25, 06-04-2007 »

The English milord sings (in Italian) an elaborated version of God save the King, after apologizing that as an Englishman he only knows one song.

Rather like Gilbert's remark: "I only know two songs. One is God Save the Queen and the other one isn't."

As for Israel's anthem, the opening is very similar to the main theme in Vltava but my book of national anthems simply says that the music is either by Nissan Belzer or Samuel Cohen, and it was adopted in 1948.
« Last Edit: 18:17:51, 09-04-2007 by Tony Watson » Logged
richard barrett
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« Reply #20 on: 20:23:16, 06-04-2007 »

This is what I found

http://stateofisrael.com/anthem/

as well as a few other references to the melody being based on Smetana's. On the other hand, Wikipedia has:

Quote
The melody for Hatikva is based on “La Mantovana,” a 17th century Italian song. Its earliest known appearance in print was in early 17th-century Italy as “Ballo di Mantova.” This melody gained wide currency in Renaissance Europe, being recorded variously as the Spanish hymn “Virgen de la Cueva” (“Virgin of the Cave”), the Yiddish folk song “Prayer for the Dew,” the Polish folk song “Pod Krakowem,” and as the Ukrainian “Kateryna Kucheryava.” In the Czech Republic this melody in major scale is known as the folk song “Ko?ka leze dírou”; in minor scale, it had been first used by Bed?ich Smetana in his symphonic poem “Má vlast” as “Die Moldau.”
The modern adaptation of the music for Hatikvah was most likely composed by Samuel Cohen in 1888. It is possible that he took the melody from Smetana’s work, or from a Romanian version of the folk song “Carul cu boi” (“Carriage with Oxen”), or from the Hungarian arrangement “Tüzed, Uram Jézus” (“Your Fire, My Lord Jesus”).
Hatikvah is written in a minor key, which is often perceived as mournful in tone and thus rarely used in national anthems. However, as the title (“The Hope”) and the words suggest, the import of the song is uplifting and optimistic in spirit.

Getting clearer all the time.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #21 on: 20:48:31, 06-04-2007 »

It is possible that he took the melody from Smetana’s work, or from a Romanian version of the folk song “Carul cu boi” (“Carriage with Oxen”), or from the Hungarian arrangement “Tüzed, Uram Jézus” (“Your Fire, My Lord Jesus”).
Yes, well, obviously the smart money is on option (c).
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Jonathan
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« Reply #22 on: 20:55:47, 06-04-2007 »

A few more...Liszt's Paraphrase on La Marseilles, also his Fantasy on English Themes, Spanish Rhapsody, Fantasy on Spanish Themes & Paraphrase on God save the King...
Gottschalk's "Union" & Jota Aragonesa
Brahms quotes a Russian anthem (can't remember which one) is his early Souvenir de Russe for piano duet,
Weber quotes "God Save the Queen" in the Jubel Overture
and so on...
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richard barrett
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« Reply #23 on: 21:04:07, 06-04-2007 »

I don't know whether anyone's actually interested, but here's some more wisdom from Wikipedia:

Quote
Samuel Cohen was an immigrant from Bessarabia, best remembered for his arrangement of the Israeli National Anthem, Hatikvah. In 1882, while living in Rishon LeZion, Cohen put a poem by Naftali Herz Imber to music. While it is thought that Cohen based the melody on an old Moldavian-Romanian folk song, "Carul cu Boi" (Cart and Oxen), it has also been claimed that the tune is based on Bed?ich Smetana's "Moldau", however, it is argued that both Cohen and Smetana composed the tune from same commonly used folk song. Cohen did not receive credit or a fee due to the lack of a copyright on the melody.

Which there wouldn't have been, since the Bern Convention on copyright wasn't drafted until 1886.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #24 on: 09:34:59, 07-04-2007 »

David Del Tredici deconstructs and reconstructs "God save the Queen" quite outrageously in the course of Vintage Alice, one of his large cycle of Carroll-based pieces.
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #25 on: 21:51:20, 08-04-2007 »

A few more...Liszt's Paraphrase on La Marseilles, also his Fantasy on English Themes, Spanish Rhapsody, Fantasy on Spanish Themes & Paraphrase on God save the King...
Gottschalk's "Union" & Jota Aragonesa
Brahms quotes a Russian anthem (can't remember which one) is his early Souvenir de Russe for piano duet,
Weber quotes "God Save the Queen" in the Jubel Overture
and so on...

But the all-time champion must be Verdi's Hymn of the Nations, written to celebrate the unification of Italy and containing the Italian National Anthem, and, in honour of the nations that had supported unification, God Save the Queen and the Marseillaise - all of which are combined in counterpoint at the end.

During the Second World War, Toscanini made a recording as the soundtrack to a propaganda film, and added the Internationale and the Star Spangled Banner at the end - I think it's still commercially available.
« Last Edit: 21:54:13, 08-04-2007 by perfect wagnerite » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: 16:01:13, 10-04-2007 »

Anyone here a have a certain guilty affection for the scene in Casablanca where the Germans come into Rick's and start singing something patriotic which is eventually overwhelmed by Victor Laszlo getting everyone else to sing La Marseillaise? I had a French girlfriend for a couple of years - she hadn't seen it and when we rectified that situation said it was the first time that tune had moved her. (At least, positively.)

I believe it's the case that most/all the extras in that scene were genuine French war refugees, which gives it an extra poignancy.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #27 on: 16:07:47, 10-04-2007 »

A few examples to start with:

Beethoven - Variations on God Save the King
Schumann - Fasschingswank aus Wien (includes La Marsellaise in the first movemet)
Debussy - Hommage a S. Pickwick Esq. PPMPC (includes God Save the King in the bass)
Debussy - Berceuse héroïque (includes La Brabançonne, the Belgian national anthem, in the middle section)
Stockhausen - Hymnen (includes national anthems from all around the world)
Finnissy - My Parents' Generation thought War meant something (cites the Debussy citing the Belgian national anthem, quite clearly)

Also Schumann song 'Die beiden Grenadiere' (don't have Op number to hand), again quoting the Marseillaise. Sorry if this has been mentioned - only just started reading this thread.
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« Reply #28 on: 16:12:54, 10-04-2007 »

Why can't the UK one be changed to Purcell's Fairest Isle? At least then it could outlast the monarchy, surely? (and it's a better tune - well, what isn't?...)

Best,

Alistair
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richard barrett
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« Reply #29 on: 16:18:53, 10-04-2007 »

I'm not sure whether I'd like to hear a sports stadium's roof being raised by "Fairest Isle".
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