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autoharp
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« Reply #15 on: 11:29:41, 08-02-2007 » |
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Bryn - how come (and how) so wide ?
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #16 on: 12:02:10, 08-02-2007 » |
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My god! Ian, that's you! Not the long-haired one, but in the background. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #17 on: 12:07:19, 08-02-2007 » |
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What happened to the 'Romantic Composers' who were protesting against Birtwistle? Has any of their work been successful? Do they still exist as a 'movement'?
There were two primary figures there, both representing different 'factions' - Frederic Stocken (nee James Stocken) of the 'Hecklers' and Keith Burstein of the 'Romantic Futurists'. Both have done this and that in the interim period, but there was never a coherent movement, really. But amongst those who have mounted similar arguments in the press are Norman Tebbitt, Julian Lloyd Webber, Martin Kettle, Beverley Crew. Also Susan McClary, Philip Brett, Richard Taruskin in musicology (from different perspectives, but the underlying arguments remain similar). With friends like that..... |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Bryn
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« Reply #18 on: 12:24:04, 08-02-2007 » |
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Bryn - how come (and how) so wide ?
Sorry autoharp, I can't seem to work out what you are referring to. My only message on this thread was enquiring after which famous person Ollie had met. Can't be Ian, 'cos when I first mentioned him on the old Beeb Radio 3 boards, ony frenchie seemed to know who I was on about, and even she only connected 'cos she had come across him on an edition of In Tune. Of course, everyone here knows Ian now, and of course he should be well famous (or should that be infamous unreformed Trot leftie?)  |
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TimR-J
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« Reply #19 on: 12:31:18, 08-02-2007 » |
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Wrong person! He's a composer (or was last time I heard of him).
Ah - I think I've got him now! It's a great clip that - "There's a tyranny of taste in this country" indeed! Ha! |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #20 on: 12:36:00, 08-02-2007 » |
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Wrong person! He's a composer (or was last time I heard of him).
Ah - I think I've got him now! It's a great clip that - "There's a tyranny of taste in this country" indeed! Ha! If we give the word 'taste' a capital 'T', then that statement might have some truth in it, but not for the reasons the protestors were giving Re Bryn's post - one Ollie Sudden should be infamous as well  |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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stuart macrae
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« Reply #21 on: 13:05:57, 08-02-2007 » |
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I believe Birtwistle has been working on a new opera, The Minotaur, for ROH (three cheers from this quarter!) hence, presumably, the apparent drop in productivity. I can't wait, personally, although I must admit I have missed his last 2 music-theatre/opera works...  Back to the clip - more explicit clues as to the identity of the long-hair?! And: "this is government without opposition...fascism" - I hope the perpetrator of these laughable views is very embarrassed! Strange, in a way, that perhaps the most Romantically-tinged of all Birtwistle's works is the one that caused all that controversy. Maybe it's just because it was in the ROH... |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #22 on: 13:24:48, 08-02-2007 » |
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I believe Birtwistle has been working on a new opera, The Minotaur, for ROH (three cheers from this quarter!) hence, presumably, the apparent drop in productivity.
Oh yes, stuart, now I remember. He's been working on that for a while, hasn't he? But these big projects take time. So long as it doesn't take as long to get to the stage as The Mask of Orpheus did! And: "this is government without opposition...fascism" - I hope the perpetrator of these laughable views is very embarrassed! Strange, in a way, that perhaps the most Romantically-tinged of all Birtwistle's works is the one that caused all that controversy. Maybe it's just because it was in the ROH...
As if the ROH never puts on any works with a tune and a good old-fashioned love story in them ... I think at the time he wrote Gawain, Birtwistle had been getting to know Wagner's music dramas. But he could only listen to them on his in-car music system, so used to get his wife to take him for long drives. Anyone know if that's true? If it's not, it should be! Reminds me of reading in some Messiaen book about when Yvonne bought Olivier a new Renault Clio to drive out into the countryside to collect birdsong. Some remakes of the 'Nicole/Papa' advert, featuring Messiaen and Birtwistle, might be in order? Incidentally, I think I've mentioned the reference to Birtwistle in an episode of 'This Life' somewhere on the other boards. I heard of a new one recently - apparently in some conversation between Ant and Dec, the former was boasting about how cultured he was, and cited the fact that he liked to listen to Birtwistle?! I haven't seen this clip, only heard of it - anyone seen it? References to new music of one type or another in popular culture might make for an interesting thread of its own (imagine you all know the Havergal Brian reference in an episode of 'Chips')? |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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stuart macrae
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« Reply #23 on: 13:37:43, 08-02-2007 » |
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Well, Harry said one of his big musical moments was hearing a percussion sectional rehearsal of Turangalila - perhaps that could be used in the new ad instead of Martin Taylor's "Spirit of Django"...?
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #24 on: 13:40:20, 08-02-2007 » |
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Oh dear, Ian ... I know Havergal Brian. I just don't know what 'Chips' is. Or indeed 'This Life' ... I can just about remember the 'Nicole/Papa' ads though. 'Olivier!' - 'Harry!'  For CHiPs - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHiPsOne episode (again haven't seen it, only heard it described) a new guy joined the highway patrol. After work one day, the others said to him something like 'Hey, you wanna come and drink some beers with us tonight?', to which the new guy responded 'Hell no, I wanna listen to the radio!'. Response something like 'Hey, what you wanna do that sort of shit for', to which he replied 'Well, Havergal Brian's Gothic Symphony is on tonight, conducted by Sir Adrian Boult....' and went on to give the full accurate details of the particular performance in question. For This Life: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_LifeMiles was out in a bar with another lawyer, a black man whose name I forget. They were looking for some type of conversation, and the latter said 'What type of music do you like?' Miles responded with something or other (can't remember what) and the black lawyer said 'I like Harrison Birtwistle'. There was stunned silence for about 10 seconds, as if the person had admitted to a taste for paedophilia or the like, then he came back with 'Don't worry, I'm only joking', or words to that effect. (hate the programme, by the way - me-generation stuff par excellence) |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Woodbine
Posts: 56
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« Reply #25 on: 18:50:06, 08-02-2007 » |
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[]
There were two primary figures there, both representing different 'factions' - Frederic Stocken (nee James Stocken) of the 'Hecklers' and Keith Burstein of the 'Romantic Futurists'. Both have done this and that in the interim period, but there was never a coherent movement, really. But amongst those who have mounted similar arguments in the press are Norman Tebbitt, Julian Lloyd Webber, Martin Kettle, Beverley Crew. Also Susan McClary, Philip Brett, Richard Taruskin in musicology (from different perspectives, but the underlying arguments remain similar). With friends like that.....
[/quote]
Thank you Ian. Must admit I had never heard of Ms McClay, having read a little about her views on Beethoven this afternoon I shall have to seriously reconsider his 9th Symphony---or there again perhaps---
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #26 on: 22:45:16, 08-02-2007 » |
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Harry said one of his big musical moments was hearing a percussion sectional rehearsal of Turangalila Is it just me or does that percussion bit in the seventh movement indeed always sound exactly like a percussion sectional?  |
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alex_hills
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« Reply #27 on: 13:00:16, 11-02-2007 » |
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Hello folks, Here's something to enjoy for a few minutes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZkE81_26c8Am I right in thinking that the "Hecklers" made a bit of a protest during the performance as well? I was too young to know about this production at the time  , but I really loved the revival some years later. I wonder who the long-haired defender of Birtwistle is...? Blimey, my very own piece of Youtube infamy. I can't believe someone dug that up, but a nice bit of nostalgia. I find myself - slightly - more embarassed by my 19 year-old fashion and grooming sense (well, I was at Sussex Uni at the time) than my attempts at defending Mr.B, who probably didn't need my help. To be fair, someone from the production company did completely goad me into it, and I refused to give my name to the Daily Mail afterwards.... It is true I have short hair these days, but I do still own that coat - although it leaves the peg only on special occasions - and probably would still agree with most of what I was trying to say, if I could be quite sure what that was . Enjoy yourselves here, for various reasons I'm more likely to read along than take part. |
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #28 on: 18:51:21, 20-02-2007 » |
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Enjoy yourselves here, for various reasons I'm more likely to read along than take part.
That's too bad, Alex. Would be nice to hear you chime in from time to time ... |
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