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marbleflugel
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« Reply #15 on: 18:47:57, 23-04-2008 » |
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I'd have thought one way of dealing with this in extremis would be to employ a mixer for the orchestra (ie give them headphones )and audience, and so integrate these considerations into the sound design? Drummers in session and TV house bands do this to good effect, for example, so why not a symphonic percussion section?
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'...A celebrity is someone who didn't get the attention they needed as an adult'
Arnold Brown
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richard barrett
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« Reply #16 on: 20:12:38, 23-04-2008 » |
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I'd have thought one way of dealing with this in extremis would be to employ a mixer for the orchestra (ie give them headphones )and audience, and so integrate these considerations into the sound design? Drummers in session and TV house bands do this to good effect, for example, so why not a symphonic percussion section?
Firstly there are usually a lot more of them, secondly they don't sit behind a kit but often have to move around between instruments, thirdly it's their effect on the other players that's the main problem, and putting headphones on every member of a symphony orchestra isn't really on... |
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #17 on: 22:06:10, 23-04-2008 » |
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loudsüpeaker
Yes, that feedback's a bit troublesome, must be a loose connection. |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #18 on: 22:17:36, 23-04-2008 » |
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I'd have thought one way of dealing with this in extremis would be to employ a mixer for the orchestra (ie give them headphones )and audience, and so integrate these considerations into the sound design? Drummers in session and TV house bands do this to good effect, for example, so why not a symphonic percussion section?
Firstly there are usually a lot more of them, secondly they don't sit behind a kit but often have to move around between instruments, thirdly it's their effect on the other players that's the main problem, and putting headphones on every member of a symphony orchestra isn't really on... There's also the fact that assembling 100 or more musicians is one way of making a big, interesting sound. Amplifying the sound made by a smaller group of musicians is another and I'm not sure that the two aren't actually inimical to each other. Once you've entered the realm of 'sound design' an orchestra is hardly the best possible use of resources. Diminishing returns and all... |
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marbleflugel
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« Reply #19 on: 14:12:17, 24-04-2008 » |
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Sure, I guess I was thinking in terms of players moderating their sound in terms of the overall mix, and deploying headphones to players stationed particular parts of an acoustic where its less obvious that theyre overdoing it.
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'...A celebrity is someone who didn't get the attention they needed as an adult'
Arnold Brown
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martle
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« Reply #20 on: 19:27:56, 24-04-2008 » |
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thirdly it's their effect on the other players that's the main problem, I would have thought that too, but according to the research I was perusing the other day it's the percussionist him/herself who's the most vulnerable. It's a slightly different story when it comes to trumpets/trombones, although not horns, given the angling of the bell when playing. |
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« Last Edit: 19:34:05, 24-04-2008 by martle »
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Green. Always green.
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #21 on: 19:33:34, 24-04-2008 » |
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It's a slightly different story when it comes to trumpest/trombones, although not horns, given the angling of the bell when playing.
All of which reminds me of this apochryphal story: Paolo Esperanza, bass-trombonist with the Simphonica Mayor de Uruguay, in a misplaced moment of inspiration decided to make his own contribution to the cannon shots fired as part of the orchestra's concert. In complete seriousness he placed a large, ignited firecracker, which was equivalent in strength to a quarter stick of dynamite, into his aluminium straight mute and then stuck the mute into the bell of his quite new Yamaha in-line double-valve bass trombone.
Later, from his hospital bed he explained to a reporter through bandages on his mouth, "I thought that the bell of my trombone would shield me from the explosion and instead, would focus the energy of the blastoutwards and away from me, propelling the mute high above the orchestra, like a rocket." However, Paolo was not up on his propulsion physics nor qualified to use high-powered artillery and in his haste to get the horn up before the firecracker went off, he failed to raise the bell of the horn high enough so as to give the mute enough arc to clear the orchestra.
What actually happened should serve as a lesson to us all during those delirious moments of divine inspiration. First, because he failed to sufficiently elevate the bell of his horn, the blast propelled the mute between rows of players in the woodwind and viola sections of the orchestra, missing the players and straight into the stomach of the conductor, driving him off the podium and directly into the front row of the audience. Fortunately, the audience were sitting in folding chairs and thus they were protected from serious injury, for the chairs collapsed under them passing the energy of the impact of the flying conductor backwards into the row of people sitting behind them, who in turn were driven back into the people in the row behind and so on, like a row of dominoes. The sound of collapsing wooden chairs and grunts of people falling on their behinds increased logarithmically, adding to the overall sound of brass cannons and brass playing as constitutes the closing measures of the Overture.
Meanwhile, all of this unplanned choreography not withstanding, back on stage Paolo's Waterloo was still unfolding. According to Paolo, "Just as the I heard the sound of the blast, time seemed to stand still.
Everything moved in slow motion. Just before I felt searing pain to my mouth, I could swear I heard a voice with a Austrian accent say "Fur every akshon zer iz un eekvul un opposeet reakshon!" Well, this should come as no surprise, for Paolo had set himself up for a textbook demonstration of this fundamental law of physics. Having failed to plug the lead pipe of his trombone, he allowed the energy of the blast to trombone which exited the mouthpiece burning his lips and face. The pyrotechnic dance wasn't over yet. The force of the blast was so great it split the bell of his shiny Yamaha right down the middle, turning it inside out while at the same time propelling Paolo backwards off the riser.
And for the grand finale, as Paolo fell backwards he lost his grip on the slide of the trombone allowing the pressure of the hot gases coursing through the horn to propel the trombone's slide like a doublegolden spear into the head of the 3rd clarinettist, knocking him unconscious.
The moral of the story? Beware, the next time you hear someone in the trombone section yell out "Hey, everyone, watch this!"  |
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« Last Edit: 19:37:36, 24-04-2008 by Il Grande Inquisitor »
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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marbleflugel
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« Reply #22 on: 19:46:40, 24-04-2008 » |
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There really should be grants for this sort of thing, eg to add an alaetoric element to the efforts of Raymond Gubbay, and perhaps appropiately-supervised ballistics masterclasses at conservatoires.
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'...A celebrity is someone who didn't get the attention they needed as an adult'
Arnold Brown
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ariosto
Gender: 
Posts: 33
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« Reply #23 on: 19:56:33, 24-04-2008 » |
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We've had deaf conductors for centuries - and most of them were born that way ....
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Ariosto
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #24 on: 21:56:09, 24-04-2008 » |
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The answer, clearly, is to replace conductors with robots. Whoops, it's already been done... http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/hondas-robot-wi.html |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Notoriously Bombastic
Posts: 181
Never smile at the brass
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« Reply #25 on: 23:05:53, 24-04-2008 » |
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IGI - urban myth I'm afraid.
NB
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