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Author Topic: The Collector  (Read 399 times)
Ron Dough
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« Reply #15 on: 13:54:36, 28-04-2008 »

Interesting that a leftist like Ian reacts so strongly to The Collector, when Fowles considered himself a socialist.
That seems to me to be lumbering towards the syllogistic, SK, or at the very least drawing a false conclusion by assuming that the two positions are de facto identical.
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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #16 on: 13:58:31, 28-04-2008 »

Interesting that a leftist like Ian reacts so strongly to The Collector, when Fowles considered himself a socialist.
That seems to me to be lumbering towards the syllogistic, SK, or at the very least drawing a false conclusion by assuming that the two positions are de facto identical.

Maybe so, but I think it's interesting that Fowles generally found less favour with sections of the press and critics whose political viewpoint he broadly shared than with more conservative commentators. 

The same applies to, say, Joe Orton, whose plays upset the old right-wing establishment during the 60s, but are now more likely to offend the left.
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...so flatterten lachend die Locken....
richard barrett
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« Reply #17 on: 14:18:01, 28-04-2008 »

I think, SK, you're seeing "the left" as some kind of monolithic entity marching in lockstep to the order of some tyrannical idea or person. No wonder you have no time for what you call "socialism", which seems to bear very little resemblance to that developed by Marx and his successors (among whom one could certainly not count someone like Stalin!).

Personally I regard John Fowles as tending towards the reactionary in any political viewpoint one might glean from his work, on account of his seeing politics basically in aesthetic terms: as Walter Benjamin famously pointed out, this is the antithesis of a socialistic viewpoint which instead sees aesthetics in political terms. This wouldn't prevent me from appreciating Fowles' work any more than it does (to take a much more extreme example) Wagner's.
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ahh
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« Reply #18 on: 17:20:55, 28-04-2008 »

I think, SK, you're seeing "the left" as some kind of monolithic entity marching in lockstep to the order of some tyrannical idea or person. No wonder you have no time for what you call "socialism", which seems to bear very little resemblance to that developed by Marx and his successors (among whom one could certainly not count someone like Stalin!).

get back in line there Barrett! Wink

I can't believe that there's some freak trying to in-breed a troglodyte football team and all this thread wants to discuss is 1970's semi-literature. I'm not sure how I feel about that.  Huh

Has anyone read David Hendy's 'History of Radio 4'? There's an account of a gardener's question time letter at the height of the Vietnam war wherein the listener is enquiring whether they can get hold of some agent orange because they've got a terrible infestation of bind weed in their garden.

Do we do this because the reality is too hideous to confront?
« Last Edit: 18:30:20, 28-04-2008 by ahh » Logged

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Ron Dough
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« Reply #19 on: 17:31:21, 28-04-2008 »

The work of Fowles is in the thread title, however, ahh, whereas the incestuous spawn are not.  Wink

[Just a wee bit of confusion with your quote boxes there, I notice. Have you been taking lessons from moderatrix Mort, by any chance?]
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Morticia
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« Reply #20 on: 17:40:14, 28-04-2008 »

[Just a wee bit of confusion with your quote boxes there, I notice. Have you been taking lessons from moderatrix Mort, by any chance?]

I heard that, Moderator Dough! Grin

However, to the point raised by ahh - point taken but then discussions here, as in real life, often move away from, while still being connected to, the original topic.
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HtoHe
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« Reply #21 on: 17:45:47, 28-04-2008 »


I can't believe that there's some freak trying to in-breed a troglodyte football team and all this thread wants to discuss is 1970's semi-literature. I'm not sure how I feel about that.  Huh

Do we do this because the reality is too hideous to confront?

I quite like it, ahh.  I don't really know what there is to say about the Austrian case given that even those who have made the effort to inform themselves won't have had access to all the relevant information at this time; and, sad to say, most of us won't have read/heard more than what we're told in the press/radio/tv.  I certainly prefer the discussion here to reading the thoughts of people clamouring, 'Today' board style, each vying to demonstrate (s)he's more outraged than the next person.

Can we really comment seriously at this early stage on the significance of this bizarre case?  I'm sure the good people here could make a more sober atempt than those on some other boards; but I'm not sure I know what to make of something so outlandishly awful.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #22 on: 18:33:25, 28-04-2008 »

I agree, HtoHe. News is still trickling out about this story and I think we would all agree that it has an awfulness almost beyond words. That surely doesn't need to be underlined in every post.

One issue that I did want to bring up before we moved on to "1970s semi-literature" was that both this case and the previous highly-publicised one of its kind have taken place in Austria. Now of course I'm not going to come out with some quasi-racist nonsense about there being something about Austrian men that makes them want to do this, but maybe there's something about Austrian law that makes it easier to do... anyone know?
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ahh
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« Reply #23 on: 19:06:18, 28-04-2008 »

I agree, HtoHe. News is still trickling out about this story and I think we would all agree that it has an awfulness almost beyond words. That surely doesn't need to be underlined in every post.

One issue that I did want to bring up before we moved on to "1970s semi-literature" was that both this case and the previous highly-publicised one of its kind have taken place in Austria. Now of course I'm not going to come out with some quasi-racist nonsense about there being something about Austrian men that makes them want to do this, but maybe there's something about Austrian law that makes it easier to do... anyone know?

I agree with HtoHe too. All except the liking it part anyway. It may be inevitable, but not likeable. Personally, I doubt I could understand even with the benefit endless back-story, psychological profiling and/or a knowledge of the finer points of the Austrian legal system. Of course I'll try to make sense of it, I just I dread the thought of how much freakshow-type media attention this will get. Sometimes I'd rather not 'live' the news, but get it in digest post fact - maybe I should just get on with my gardening!

But while I'm sorting out the bindweed I'll be wondering how many people in basements there might be is Basildon right now? And whether I should finally read the Magus - dammit!
« Last Edit: 19:09:28, 28-04-2008 by ahh » Logged

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HtoHe
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« Reply #24 on: 21:19:47, 28-04-2008 »

I agree with HtoHe too. All except the liking it part anyway. It may be inevitable, but not likeable.

You have a point, ahh.  I meant, really, that I found our discussion preferable to unfettered and ill-informed discussion of the Austrian case.  I probably didn't give enough weight to the fact that the thread is in the 'News And Current Affairs' section; so completely brushing aside the 'news' element is probably not very respectful.
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