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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #15 on: 17:43:56, 23-06-2008 » |
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I'm surprised he's been given a gong, given his recent' Facebook shenanigans.  |
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...so flatterten lachend die Locken....
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #16 on: 18:17:56, 23-06-2008 » |
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Yes, a knighthood does include the British Empire in the title, and as such is no different to the other honours. Those who have received or been offered a knighthood are surely well aware of this.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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George Garnett
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« Reply #17 on: 18:21:48, 23-06-2008 » |
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Actually a knighthood also involves conferring the "honour" of "Knight Commander of the British Empire", does it not?
Not necessarily. Some prefer to hold out for a "Knight Commander of the Order of the Bath".  |
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #18 on: 18:46:59, 23-06-2008 » |
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Yes, a knighthood does include the British Empire in the title, and as such is no different to the other honours. Those who have received or been offered a knighthood are surely well aware of this.
It is possible to be made a Knight Bachelor, a Knight of the Bath, a Knight of St Michael and St George and few others. |
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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martle
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« Reply #19 on: 19:38:06, 23-06-2008 » |
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I too was surprised that Nyman hadn't got one of these things by now. His willing absorption into mainstream British cultural life and his 'commercial' success* has virtually made it an inevitability for some time, hasn't it. And let's not forget the contribution to that image made by his most successful film scores. He's been at the Oscars more than once. He's a successful international export. He's perceived as good for UK plc.
*On the other hand, Private Eye ran a piece about his inability to fill Cardogan Hall for a recent mini Nyman Fest...
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Green. Always green.
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #20 on: 19:56:50, 23-06-2008 » |
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Actually a knighthood also involves conferring the "honour" of "Knight Commander of the British Empire", does it not?
Does it? I didn't know that. At least they don't brandish it at the end of their names in public. That would of course change my argument. The whole sorry apparatus is described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_British_EmpireComposers on the boards may find the description of when and how it is appropriate to wear their regalia useful for future reference |
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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time_is_now
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« Reply #21 on: 21:19:31, 23-06-2008 » |
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I've only skimmed that briefly, but it seems to suggest that there's not a difference between a KBE and a 'Sir'. I honestly thought there was (don't you have to be a British citizen to call yourself 'Sir'? whereas KBE is what Alfred Brendel has), but maybe I was wrong. As I said, it does rather affect my argument if so. |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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richard barrett
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« Reply #22 on: 21:27:44, 23-06-2008 » |
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Actually a knighthood also involves conferring the "honour" of "Knight Commander of the British Empire", does it not?
Does it? I didn't know that. At least they don't brandish it at the end of their names in public. That would of course change my argument. The whole sorry apparatus is described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_British_EmpireComposers on the boards may find the description of when and how it is appropriate to wear their regalia useful for future reference I've already bought my lapel pin in preparation for the inevitable. Only 15 quid. Very reasonable I thought. |
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Robert Dahm
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« Reply #23 on: 00:33:25, 24-06-2008 » |
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I've only skimmed that briefly, but it seems to suggest that there's not a difference between a KBE and a 'Sir'. I honestly thought there was (don't you have to be a British citizen to call yourself 'Sir'? whereas KBE is what Alfred Brendel has), but maybe I was wrong. As I said, it does rather affect my argument if so. A KBE may be awarded to somebody of any nationality, but you have to be a subject of the Commonwealth to use the 'Sir' before your name. For instance, one could be 'Sir time_is_now, KBE', but one could only be 'Alfred Brendel, KBE'. The honour is the same, but if you ain't British, you don't get to be a 'Sir'. I think that wikipedia article has a little paragraph about Terry Wogan. He was 'Terry Wogan, KBE', but later took dual British/Irish citizenship, at which point he became 'Sir Terry Wogan, KBE'. Interestingly, there's also a wiki page with a list of people who have refused honours, or relinquished them, and I must say that the membership of that list looks far more illustrious... |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #24 on: 00:40:46, 24-06-2008 » |
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A KBE may be awarded to somebody of any nationality, but you have to be a subject of the Commonwealth to use the 'Sir' before your name. For instance, one could be 'Sir time_is_now, KBE', but one could only be 'Alfred Brendel, KBE'. Oh, I see. I hadn't realised the ones who were 'Sir' were 'KBE' at the same time. By the way, there'll be no Sir time_is_now. No chance of me ever accepting an honour from the British monarch, even if it was King Harry. Interestingly, there's also a wiki page with a list of people who have refused honours, or relinquished them, and I must say that the membership of that list looks far more illustrious... That's interesting, I'll have to try and have a look for that. I do sometimes wonder though whether letting it be known you've refused an honour isn't an equal vanity to accepting one. (Having said which, I suppose vanity wasn't what Benjamin Zephaniah for example was worried about.) |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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ahinton
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« Reply #25 on: 18:02:10, 03-07-2008 » |
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I find myself very much in alignment with so much of what has been expressed in this thread so far, for all that I cannot help but harbour some doubts as to whether and to what extent the conferring and acceptance of some of these honours would of necessity impinge upon the manner in which a composer might do his/her subsequent work (although at the same time I'm not of course suggesting that this kind of thing couldn't ever happen).
I have heard (although I cannot vouch for the veracity of it, as I was naturally not present on the occasion concerned) that Her Majesty the Queen barely concealed her revulsion at the knighthood of Harrison Birtwistle and it might reasonably be argued that, among British composers, he is one of the more unlikely Knights of the Realm an one in whose compositional manner I can't say I've noticed any obvious change since he became one.
Michael Tippett's brief spell at the pleasure of the majestic predecessor of the monarch present at his knighthood ceremony appears not to have discouraged his accession to this hallowed state.
Rumour has it that Alan Bush was once offer a knighthood, although I'm not sure that this is true...
Perhaps the most appealing clutch of musical "Sirs" that I ever saw was at the protest march in 1980 (I think it was) at the threatened disbanding of the BBC Scottish SO.
The prospect of being offered a knighthood reminds me of a well-known notice about not giving small change, in that it's a good thing this will never happen to me, since "refusal can offend".
The only serious addition I'd like to throw into the ring here as of now is the question of whether such honours are in any case taken anything like as seriously today as they were in the days when Elgar was knighted for, if they're not, then their ability to help steer the course of British music in any kind of direction would surely be diluted and compromised?...
Anyway, here's a few nominations to be deposited in the Palace suggestion box:
Sir Brian Ferneyhough, for services to nested tuplets
Sir Michael Finnissy, for services to the Church of England
Sir Anthony Payne, for services to English musical greatness of a bygone age
Sir Richard Barrett, for services to Welsh culture
Sir Karl Jenkins, for services to Sir Karl Jenkins
Sir Ronald Stevenson, for
...oh, I'm just being ridiculous! Sorry, folks, I'll shut up immediately...
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #26 on: 18:28:33, 03-07-2008 » |
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Tim: "Actually I think I'd like to be an Earl and an OBE."
Graeme: "You'd be an earlobe."
Or words to that effect.
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