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ernani
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« Reply #15 on: 14:43:29, 08-05-2007 » |
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Hi Parsifal1882,
No, the tenor on the live recording is Flaviano Labo and for me he's preferable to Marti on EMI. Cappuccilli is also the baritone on the live recording and very fine he is too. The recording is available on Opera d'Oro and Gala I think. Well worth getting hold of.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #16 on: 15:24:26, 09-05-2007 » |
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Ian - going back days, thanks for the feminist take on Norma. A bit wordy to my mind, but the message is pretty clear. Scratch a man and you find a sh.. I think Bellini's English contemporaries would have said cad.
Why is it that operatic tenors are so often cads?
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #17 on: 22:26:02, 09-05-2007 » |
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Can anyone please tell me what is cad? It is obviously a slang. I think I prefer one of you to explain it to me, than to call some of my English speaking friends (that may include long distance call).
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #18 on: 22:52:11, 09-05-2007 » |
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cad = негодяй (it's quite archaic in English, it's almost impossible to use now except with humorous irony).
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #19 on: 10:37:53, 10-05-2007 » |
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tp - I didn't want to use the word "shit" again. Cad, as Reiner says, is never seriously used nowadays. It is very Victorian, but I have just been reading Anthony Trollope's The Eustace Diamonds so it is probably in my mind. The word was only ever used about men, a woman can never be a cad.
Pollione and Pinkerton are definite cads, Rodolfo, Radames, Alfredo, Siegfried, Elvino in Sonambula and lots of other tenors act in caddish ways.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #20 on: 10:53:19, 10-05-2007 » |
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Some more tenorish cads... Jenik.. Steva... Herod... ... isn't about time we had another Opera Quiz?  |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Parsifal1882
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« Reply #21 on: 11:04:13, 10-05-2007 » |
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Ho, RT! Start one please!
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Il duolo della terra nel chiostro ancor ci segue, solo del cor la guerra in ciel si calmera! E la voce di Carlo! E Carlo Quinto! Mio padre! O ciel!
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #22 on: 11:36:46, 10-05-2007 » |
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At first I desagreed with the statement that most tenors are cads, but now I think I agree. I have a difficult time now thinking what tenor is not a cad.
In Donizetti there are few not cads, but I have to google to get the names in Italian.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #23 on: 11:48:10, 10-05-2007 » |
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tp, I said many, not all, tenors are cads. Manrico, Parsifal, Walter von Stolzing, Don Ottavio, Tamino, Nemorino to name a few. However, they are possibly the less interesting characters. (Fenton in Falstaff is a perfect gent, and apart from the only proper full scale aria in the work, he is almost irrelevant.)
The ultimate cad is the Duke in Rigoletto.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #24 on: 12:28:36, 10-05-2007 » |
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don Basilio,
What about Rodomes in Aida. Is he positive or negative? He was a warior, comander, but he was nice.
I love his arias.
About sopranos in operas I can say that most soprano parts are positive people (is it right?).
The very high soprano who is negative is the Queen of Night in Mozart's Magic Flute.
I love her aria very much.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #25 on: 12:34:30, 10-05-2007 » |
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Perhaps I am being unkind to Radames. It is difficult to see what else he could do in the circumstances, but he does appear to butter up Amneris a bit. On the other hand, as she is his boss' daughter, he needs to keep in with her.
I can think of quite a few soprano characters I would run a mile from, Donna Anna, Turandot, Tosca and Lucrezia Borgia all spring to mind.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #26 on: 12:42:29, 10-05-2007 » |
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Is donna Anna so bad? I think Don Juan was not kind to her or something. He did not want continue his relationship with her. But is she bad? I don't know. I saw the opera several times, but I was always interested in other characters.
I am not very critical to Rodomes. It is very flatering if the boss's daughter gives her attention to you.
Many men would marry her for comforts in life etc. But he wants to be with Aida who is a slave and has nothing to offer, but herself. It was not enough then and it is not enough now. Some men follow their hearts and some don't. The same can be said about women.
We discussed Don Ottavio. He comes out as too wimpy. On the whole women are trickier, manipulative etc than man. They have stronger mind if they want to achieve something (get a man). But may be I am too hard on us ladies.
I think I got myself in trouble with my train of thoughts.
I think women are gentle, sweet creatures really.
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« Last Edit: 20:30:24, 10-05-2007 by trained-pianist »
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #27 on: 13:11:28, 10-05-2007 » |
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We discussed Don Otavio. He comes out as too wimpy. I've always imagined Ottavio to be a older man in pursuit of a younger woman... he's a bit of an old nanny, full of talk about what he's going to do ("simulate!") but in fact he's unable to do any of it. I also suspect he might have a few impotency problems? He's a kind of foil to Masetto, who is young and impulsive and heavy-handed, and as thick as two planks. His aria (Dalla sua pace) isn't the music of a young man. That's why the gag at the end... when Anna asks him to wait "just a couple more years, until I have recovered from all this" is funny... because he might peg-out before then  I think Anna is ruthlessly using him as a sugar-daddy, with no serious intention to marry him.... let's face it, Don G got into the house because she let him in... |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #28 on: 17:11:30, 10-05-2007 » |
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Reiner, It is very interesting what you said in your post.
I never thought this way. For some reason Ottavio was always played by a young man. May be because the part is not central they give it to a young singer.
What you say is interesting (Anna is using him). It makes sense. She cries for him and he is sort of on her side, but he can not do nothing. There is no vitality in him.
May be with this approach one could accept the character better.
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David_Underdown
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« Reply #29 on: 20:16:14, 10-05-2007 » |
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My wife has a theory that in some ancient language "opera" actually meant "angry woman" - particularly in relation to some Handel characters
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--
David
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