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Author Topic: Wagner's Parsifal - what's it all about then?  (Read 1108 times)
Swan_Knight
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« Reply #45 on: 19:52:35, 26-02-2008 »

why do I get the feeling that some people are intent upon finding what they're looking for?

Even you would have to agree, though, that Wagner's "heroines" have a habit of dropping dead as soon as they've assisted their "better halves" in achieving some kind of transfiguration. It's never the other way around.

I'll certainly admit it, but in what way does this constitute mysogeny?

Anyway, Brunhilde succeeds where Siegfried fails - and he's no use to her at all!  Wink
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...so flatterten lachend die Locken....
gradus
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« Reply #46 on: 22:59:51, 26-02-2008 »

To me, Parsifal is a curate's egg of a piece.  It combines some of Wagner's most inspired music eg the Act 1 Transformation scene with some of the most banal - the truly appalling male glee club writing for the Knights of the Grail.  I don't find the piece misogynistic but I guess that you can find it if you look. Isn't it simply another of RW's takes on folklore and legend?  Something that always fascinated him, to our considerable advantage. 

Cosima's diaries have a great deal on Parsifal and everything else, usefully cross referenced but they don't tell you as much as listening and using your own sensibilities.  It is after all music.
 
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Ted Ryder
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« Reply #47 on: 12:43:26, 29-02-2008 »

 OK what's happened to this Parsifal thread? I've waited three days to allow for cogitation and reflection but I'm now getting withdrawal symptoms, I'm running out of contentious programme notes, transexual videos, historic photos and political diatribes. I'm even on the verge of consulting Friedrich who, of course, I do not understand. Come on lets be having you, I want additions to this fascinating thread and I want them in the very near future- or I shall go to the Grumpy Rant Room. Thank you
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #48 on: 12:46:37, 29-02-2008 »

In that case it looks like now is about the time to mention that if memory serves me correctly some versions of the story have the unhealing spear-wound not in Amfortas' side but in his, er, nether regions. A few more subtexts there...
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Ted Ryder
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« Reply #49 on: 13:08:51, 29-02-2008 »

 Thank you Oliver. In that case would it be possible to double the roles of the twins Amfortas and Klingsor?
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #50 on: 13:18:26, 29-02-2008 »

In that case it looks like now is about the time to mention that if memory serves me correctly some versions of the story have the unhealing spear-wound not in Amfortas' side but in his, er, nether regions. A few more subtexts there...

Oooh dear, so he caught a dose of the clap from Kundry?  And of course, he blames her?  This whole mysogyny maze is becoming less and less palatable as we explore it further Sad

contentious programme notes, transexual videos, historic photos and political diatribes.

PARSIFAL seems to have been left behind in the "I know, they're all loonies who THINK they're the Knights Of The Grail!" genre of productions Wink  I'm not entirely surprised, because it's such a costly show to do...  they can't afford to have a "now, how to amuse them today?" production.  Moreover, those most likely to turn up are the humourless harridans of the Wagner Society,  who generally prefer productions in which no-one moves or does anything, in costumes which are copies of those approved by Der Meister himself Wink

As I said earlier, the opera hasn't actually GOT much in the way of action, so it's hard to see what little there is could be reinterpreted in any significantly different way (unless you went for some skewball gonzo approach, that is).  The ENO production of the mid-1980s had Parsifal moving around the stage on what appeared to be a giant motorised piece of gorgonzola cheese...  but I think this was merely hapless coincidence, rather than any intention to introduce a "cheesey" element into the story Smiley
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
richard barrett
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« Reply #51 on: 13:26:54, 29-02-2008 »

I know, they're all loonies
how about:

WE ARE THE KNIGHTS WHO SAY NEH... met vom Wein, wandelt ihn neu zu Lebens feurigem Blute!



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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #52 on: 13:28:06, 29-02-2008 »

If I'm absolutely honest with myself, I know that Parsifal is actually about a bunch of cross-dressing queens who like playing S&M games with sharp phallic objects; but it helps my enjoyment to pretend otherwise.
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...so flatterten lachend die Locken....
Don Basilio
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« Reply #53 on: 13:43:03, 29-02-2008 »

Thank you, Ted, I'm waiting too.

And thank you, sk, but I am confused.  Where's the cross dressing?  Are the flower maidens blokes in drag?  (Now there's a radical production concept...)
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #54 on: 13:54:51, 29-02-2008 »

Are the flower maidens blokes in drag?  (Now there's a radical production concept...)

There's a nagging feeling at the back of my mind that this has been done (but I'm at work and I have yet to find a suitable phrase to put into Google that will get past the "inappropriate content" filter*).

On the other hand, older operatic lags here may remember Vickers singing Tristan at Covent Garden wearing what appeared to be a purple frock and platform shoes ... and he was still magnificent.

(* putting in the word "drag" tends to come up with references to the tempi of certain celebrated German conductors  Wink)
« Last Edit: 14:00:47, 29-02-2008 by perfect wagnerite » Logged

At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
Don Basilio
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« Reply #55 on: 14:41:02, 29-02-2008 »

Moreover, those most likely to turn up are the humourless harridans of the Wagner Society,  who generally prefer productions in which no-one moves or does anything, in costumes which are copies of those approved by Der Meister himself Wink

Sounds just like the D'Oyly Carte in the old days.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #56 on: 16:39:35, 29-02-2008 »

SK & Don Basilio  Grin  Grin  Grin  Grin  Grin
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
harmonyharmony
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« Reply #57 on: 21:47:22, 29-02-2008 »

In that case it looks like now is about the time to mention that if memory serves me correctly some versions of the story have the unhealing spear-wound not in Amfortas' side but in his, er, nether regions. A few more subtexts there...
Yup. Doesn't Fraser mention that in the Golden Bough?
I definitely read about it while studying The Wasteland.
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Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #58 on: 12:58:08, 15-05-2008 »

Bryan Magee's book Wagner and Philosophy was an essential aid to me in coming to my own understanding, such as it is, of Wagner's work. I recommend that you look at it, Don B, if you haven't already.

I browzed it in a bookshop yesterday and it seemed immensely readable.  I will get it when I am sure I will get round to reading it pronto.

The nugget I remember was how Wagner became respectable and a king and two emperors visited Bayreuth at the same time.  The Emperors were of Germany and Brazil.

The Emperor of Brazil was traveling incognito.  When he came to write in the visitors' book at his Bayreuth hotel, he entered his occupation as "emperor".
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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