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richard barrett
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« Reply #15 on: 10:38:34, 01-08-2007 » |
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Seriously,though ,the most tedious music ever written is probably long-forgotten,some failed 19th century opera or ballet...
Ladies and gentlemen, I propose the oratorio Putifar, Giuseppe e Giacobbe (1848) by Pietro Raimondi. I haven't heard it, and I doubt very much that anyone here has, or indeed that it's been performed since its premiere, but it lasts six hours and actually consists of three oratorios which are first played separately and then simultaneously, which would be anything but Ivesian in effect since it's all apparently written according to the rules of strict counterpoint. I confidently predict that its tediousness would be less controversial than that of anything by Britten, Messiaen or Bartók. |
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #16 on: 10:53:57, 01-08-2007 » |
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I'm going to need to do some comparative listening on this one. As well as the Richter recording, there was a old HMV mono one (Abram/Philharmonia/Menges) as well as a MacGregor one on Collins Classics (or more accurately, two, since although it was released with different couplings, one of the versions had the original finale as an appendix, and that version is to hand as well). I'd certainly not put it in the list of his top works, indeed, I listen to his other concertante piano work - the Diversions for Piano (left hand) rather more, but it deserves the odd airing. I'd agree with Martle about the Vioin Concerto, but would suggest that it's the Cello Symphony which deserves the accolade as the most accomplished of all his works for (instrumental) soloist and orchestra.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #17 on: 11:07:07, 01-08-2007 » |
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it came across as better than I had remembered it (which comment will no doubt confirm your determination never to waste time on it again  ) That same thought had crossed my mind, George, but nonetheless I will try to hear the Richter/Britten recording soon, since I'm not in the habit of writing things off on one performance (and even if Steven Osborne was good, maybe I just wasn't in the mood for whatever it is the piece has to offer - unlike the La mer which I was very much in the mood for!). And my guess would be that it is one of the works that Britten-haters would point to as Exhibit A for the prosecution and as containing everything they dislike about his music. I certainly wouldn't want to do that, being basically (even if not fanatically) pro-Britten. And it's not the 'brilliant but brittle' thing that bothers me, Mary - I'm presuming detractors would extend that description to Our Hunting Fathers, which I love very much. I did like Britten's Violin Concerto when I heard it (a couple of times, I think, when Vengerov's recording came out and I was still working in a record shop). As for Bluebeard's Castle, I didn't really get it till I saw a production, but Bartok and Messiaen are two of my favourite composers ever. I won't give a sermon, though, smittims (don't know which Oxford graduate you have in mind but it ain't me!). |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Bryn
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« Reply #18 on: 11:28:35, 01-08-2007 » |
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Sorry Richard, I have been reading the Varèse thread but I must have missed that. I'm also confused about the voices: I thought Bryn told me last night that a soloist was often used because V was worried the bass section of a choir couldn't pitch it accurately enough, but it sounds like you're saying the opposite. If the latter, I'm a bit surprised the Proms still thought it better to go for the massed option ('a priest or a line of priests', Paul Griffiths described the alternatives in his programme note, without saying which Varèse actually preferred) - surely there are good enough bass soloists around now, in this day and age and all that.
t_i_n, I got a bit mixed up over that one, I'm afraid. As to the organ, I think Varèse specified an electric organ in the published score, didn't he? http://mac-texier.ircam.fr/textes/c00000106/n00002698 |
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autoharp
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« Reply #19 on: 14:41:27, 01-08-2007 » |
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I sat in the East Choir (I tried semaphore, telepathy and even a couple of muted shouts in the interval, but I'm afraid I failed, Bryn). The Varese had its good points (1st prize to the trombone section) although the start was pretty tentative. The criticisms I have, which were borne out in the TV broadcast, were to do with the balance (OK - not a lot can be done about the piano in that place), the voices and the ondes martenots (or whatever the plural is). The latter were unbelievably coy and their virtual inaudability in places created a couple of nasty gaps - the performers' fault really. There are places where they need to dominate and it didn't happen. There needed to be twice as many voices (there were six). One chap seemed to be giving the part what it deserved, but the overall approach came over as operatic and even churchy at times - ugh ! I suppose the conductor should have done something about that, but I'd hesitate to give him a bad time since he did a good job throughout the concert and the performers undoubtedly respected him. A big thumbs up to the percussion section, too - they were extremely well-behaved.
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Bryn
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« Reply #20 on: 15:04:08, 01-08-2007 » |
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Autoharp, you echo comments I made to t_i_n last night re. the Ondes Martenot instruments (how's that for a get-out). I wondered whether they would sound better balanced in the television mix, (which certainly served the Theremin well in th Ives 4th the other week), but they were still rather backward in coming forward, so to speak. I haven't listened to the Radio 3 DAB version yet.
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« Last Edit: 20:06:55, 01-08-2007 by Bryn »
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autoharp
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« Reply #21 on: 19:54:55, 01-08-2007 » |
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Great minds, Bryn, great minds. And not for the first time either !
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #22 on: 21:34:37, 01-08-2007 » |
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I don't know why I expected to see a theremin. Two ondes martenots it is then.
I listened to a different performance of it this afternoon on CD and the better balance helped a lot in appreciating this piece (as I suppose it would in any piece). There was only a solo singer, though.
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ahinton
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« Reply #23 on: 23:19:15, 01-08-2007 » |
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I love Britten's Piano Concerto and enjoyed it very much last night.
If asked to suggest the most tedious work ever written,I would think of Messiaen's 'Turangalila-Symphonie' or 'Bluebeard's Castle' but as I know they are favourites of some listeners I'd probably be blasted by a long sermon from some Oxford Graduate. Not necessarily; I've never even attended Oxford, let alone graduated therefrom... Best, Alistair |
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ahinton
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« Reply #24 on: 23:24:37, 01-08-2007 » |
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Seriously,though ,the most tedious music ever written is probably long-forgotten,some failed 19th century opera or ballet...
Ladies and gentlemen, I propose the oratorio Putifar, Giuseppe e Giacobbe (1848) by Pietro Raimondi. I haven't heard it, and I doubt very much that anyone here has, or indeed that it's been performed since its premiere, but it lasts six hours and actually consists of three oratorios which are first played separately and then simultaneously, which would be anything but Ivesian in effect since it's all apparently written according to the rules of strict counterpoint. I confidently predict that its tediousness would be less controversial than that of anything by Britten, Messiaen or Bartók. Well, fortunately no one's yet mentioned anything by me in the tediosity context (Ian, where are you when you're most needed?!), so I suppose that I may yet live to see another (heavenly?) day after all... Best, Alistair |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #25 on: 23:33:07, 01-08-2007 » |
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Ladies and gentlemen, I propose the oratorio Putifar, Giuseppe e Giacobbe (1848) by Pietro Raimondi.
Clearly a revolutionary year in many respects. I too wish to hear this work, or at least see a score of it. Where might such a thing be held? |
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dotcommunist
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« Reply #26 on: 23:54:09, 01-08-2007 » |
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They have an edition here at the Karlsruhe Landesbibliothek, great whopper it is too; Wolfgang Rihm is often seen in disguise copying passages out of it, never knew why.
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Biroc
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« Reply #27 on: 23:59:37, 01-08-2007 » |
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They have an edition here at the Karlsruhe Landesbibliothek, great whopper it is too; Wolfgang Rihm is often seen in disguise copying passages out of it, never knew why.
Steady...  |
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"Believe nothing they say, they're not Biroc's kind."
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