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Author Topic: Prom 26 - Kurtág and Mahler  (Read 1265 times)
richard barrett
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« Reply #30 on: 21:48:50, 02-08-2007 »

I really don't see any reason for this assumption, Richard.  Why would people who haven't heard a piece before take it on themselves to lead the applause?  It strikes me as such a strange thing to do that I'm reluctant to attribute such behaviour to newcomers. 

The average age of concertgoers is quite high but we're not all in our nineties; so there must have been a steady stream of newcomers in the decades since the 'applaud at the end of the symphony' convention became established.  Why didn't the newcomers of the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s & 1980s feel the need to applaud between movements?

Mr Kenyon's tired arguments on 'Today' don't make much appeal even if the unconventional applause is being led by people new to orchestral concerts. 

My assumption was that there were some people in the audience who thought the symphony was over after the third movement, not that they took it on themselves to applaud before it was over. If you're hearing Mahler's ninth symphony for the first time you might well think that the third movement ends with emphatic finality.

I haven't heard Nicholas Kenyon's comments though, and I'm not really very interested in what he has to say, especially after his undignified protestations last year on being confronted with the fact (of which somehow he'd been unaware) that there wasn't a single piece by a woman composer in the entire Proms season.
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HtoHe
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« Reply #31 on: 22:18:14, 02-08-2007 »

My assumption was that there were some people in the audience who thought the symphony was over after the third movement, not that they took it on themselves to applaud before it was over. If you're hearing Mahler's ninth symphony for the first time you might well think that the third movement ends with emphatic finality.

A subtle but significant distinction, I agree.  But as a newcomer (and still, thirty years later, with an unfamilar piece) I wouldn't have joined in the applause until it was well established - or, on a tip from an experienced friend, I saw that the conductor had laid down the baton.


I haven't heard Nicholas Kenyon's comments though, and I'm not really very interested in what he has to say, especially after his undignified protestations last year on being confronted with the fact (of which somehow he'd been unaware) that there wasn't a single piece by a woman composer in the entire Proms season.

Personally, I thought Lebrecht was even sillier.  He seems to think there should be an announcement before certain works asking the audience to wait until the end before applauding.  Who would select these works he didn't say.  Utterly daft.  But it's a bit mean to criticise Kenyon or Lebrecht when the blame really lies with the editors of 'Today'.  Three minutes or so for people to discuss a subject like this is bound to yield more questions than answers.
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Daniel
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« Reply #32 on: 22:23:05, 02-08-2007 »

I would instinctively agree with Richard about the reasons for the applause.

Also, I think the English are often very uncomfortable with silence, therefore somebody who doesn't know that the music is between movts and therefore is not traditionally expected to clap, may well have that knee-jerk reaction of clapping to dispatch what to them might feel like an embarassing silence.




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Bryn
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« Reply #33 on: 22:29:23, 02-08-2007 »

Well Volkov, who Lebrecht apparently expected to be put off by the applause, supported Nick Kenyon's point about shuffling, coughing, etc. being far more distracting. He found no great problem with the applause. As to saving the applause to the end, I will repeat what I have suggested at TOP. This is surely a work where restraint at the close of play is far more important than whether or not a smattering of applause occurs between movements.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #34 on: 01:27:12, 03-08-2007 »

Well Volkov, who Lebrecht apparently expected to be put off by the applause, supported Nick Kenyon's point about shuffling, coughing, etc. being far more distracting.

Oo yes, I'd much rather have applause between movements than that thing of I Know This Silence Is Not The End Of The Piece And I Am Demonstrating My Knowledge By Coughing My Lungs Out.
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #35 on: 01:33:36, 03-08-2007 »

Well Volkov, who Lebrecht apparently expected to be put off by the applause, supported Nick Kenyon's point about shuffling, coughing, etc. being far more distracting.

Oo yes, I'd much rather have applause between movements than that thing of I Know This Silence Is Not The End Of The Piece And I Am Demonstrating My Knowledge By Coughing My Lungs Out.

Yes, well, I prefer either of those to I'm SO Smart That I Know This Is The End of the Piece So I'll Start Applauding Mere Milliseconds After the Final Chord - See Aren't I Clever?
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #36 on: 01:37:03, 03-08-2007 »

And then there's

I'm SO Smart That I Know This Is The End of the Piece So I'll Start Applauding Mere Milliseconds After the Final Chord -

Why Aren't The Rest of You Clapping? Oops. I Suppose I'll Stop Now. You'd Think That Would Teach Me. It Won't, You Know.

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Ron Dough
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« Reply #37 on: 01:43:38, 03-08-2007 »

Not to mention the I Know The Final Cadence So I Can Get My Bravo In First And Then Everyone Will Hear ME prazzock.             
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richard barrett
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« Reply #38 on: 01:45:04, 03-08-2007 »

My assumption was that there were some people in the audience who thought the symphony was over after the third movement, not that they took it on themselves to applaud before it was over.

Except that, IIRC, there was applause after the first and second movements too.
In which case I retire from this discussion with what scraps of dignity I can pull around myself, and bid you all a restful night.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #39 on: 01:47:33, 03-08-2007 »

Not to mention the I Know The Final Cadence So I Can Get My Bravo In First And Then Everyone Will Hear ME prazzock.             

It was only after I had let rip with what remains the only booing spell of my concertgoing career that I remembered it was a live broadcast.  Cheesy
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tonybob
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vrooooooooooooooom


« Reply #40 on: 08:50:47, 03-08-2007 »

[quote from: that opilec chappie]Of course, the ideal Classical Music Buff's Ring Tone would be a low pedal E flat ...[/quote]
imagine the vibration from *that*
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sososo s & i.
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