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Author Topic: Poetry Appreciation Thread.  (Read 19823 times)
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #195 on: 09:54:35, 21-06-2007 »

Here are the two poems by John Mackay which Richard Strauss set and which are discussed in another thread. The German versions are original, and the English are translations.


                       MORGEN!

   Und morgen wird die Sonne wieder scheinen,
   Und auf dem Wege, den ich gehen werde,
   Wird uns, die Seligen, sie wieder einen
   Inmitten dieser sonnenatmenden Erde . . .

   Und zu dem Strand, dem weiten, wogenblauen,
   Werden wir still und langsam niedersteigen,
   Stumm werden wir uns in die Augen schauen,
   Und auf uns sinkt des Glückes grosses Schweigen.


                     TO-MORROW!

   And tomorrow the sun will shine again,
   And upon that path which I shall take
   It will bring us, the blessed ones, together again,
   In the heart of this sun-breathing Earth . . .
 
   And down to the shore, so wide and wave-blue,
   We shall climb quietly and slowly;
   Dumb, we shall gaze at each other,
   As upon us there descends the great silence of Joy.


                               -oOo-


                HEIMLICHE AUFFORDERUNG

   Auf, hebe die funkelnde Schale empor zum Mund,
   Und trinke beim Freudenmahle dein Herz gesund.
   Und wenn du sie hebst, so winke mir heimlich zu,
   Dann lächle ich und dann trinke ich still wie du . . .

   Und still gleich mir betrachte um uns das Heer
   Der trunknen Schwätzer - verachte sie nicht zu sehr.
   Nein, hebe die blinkende Schale, gefüllt mit Wein,
   Und laß beim lärmenden Mahle sie glücklich sein.

   Doch hast du das Mahl genossen, den Durst gestillt,
   Dann verlasse der lauten Genossen festfreudiges Bild,
   Und wandle hinaus in den Garten zum Rosenstrauch,
   Dort will ich dich dann erwarten nach altem Brauch,

   Und will an die Brust dir sinken, eh du's erhofft,
   Und deine Küsse trinken, wie ehmals oft,
   Und flechten in deine Haare der Rose Pracht.
   O komme, du wunderbare, ersehnte Nacht!



                    SECRET INVITATION

    Rise, lift the sparkling goblet to your lips,
    And drink your heart's fill at the joyous feast.
    And as you lift it give me a secret sign,
    Then shall I smile and like you quietly drink . . .

    Gaze quietly as do I at the throng about us
    Of drunken revellers - do not despise them overmuch.
    No, raise your glinting cup, brimming with wine,
    And let them be happy at their clamorous meal.

    But when you have savoured the meal and quenched your thirst,
    Then leave the your noisy comrades' joyful gathering,
    And stroll out to the rose-bush in the garden;
    There will I await you, after the old custom,

    And sink upon your breast before you can even ask,
    And drink your kisses, as often in past times,
    And weave the rose's splendour into your hair.
    Oh, come! you wondrous, longed-for night!
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« Reply #196 on: 10:31:02, 21-06-2007 »

I bought Harold Bloom's The Poems of Our Climate, his big book on Wallace Stevens, on the way home last night. Is this the greatest book on poetry ever written? Here's the Stevens poem from which it takes its title:

I

Clear water in a brilliant bowl,
Pink and white carnations. The light
In the room more like a snowy air,
Reflecting snow. A newly-fallen snow
At the end of winter when afternoons return.
Pink and white carnations---one desires
So much more than that. The day itself
Is simplified: a bowl of white,
Cold, a cold porcelain, low and round,
With nothing more than the carnations there.

II

Say even that this complete simplicity
Stripped one of all one's torments, concealed
The evilly compounded, vital I
And made it fresh in a world of white,
A world of clear water, brilliant-edged,
Still one would want more, one would need more,
More than a world of white and snowy scents.

III

There would still remain the never-resting mind,
So that one would want to escape, come back
To what had been so long composed.
The imperfect is our paradise.
Note that, in this bitterness, delight,
Since the imperfect is so hot in us,
Lies in flawed words and stubborn sounds.
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« Reply #197 on: 11:47:38, 29-06-2007 »

Yes, we would like to add our thanks to Mr Grew.

We would also like to ask him (or any other distinguished members) whether a name has ever been given to this curious pentametrical variant SU-SUU-SU-SU-SU (where 'S' denotes a stressed syllable and 'U' an unstressed one), which we have never before noticed in even 2 or 3 consecutive lines of English poetry, never mind pursued with such restless vigour throughout 21 lines (divided into 11 and 10, in what one may even suppose to be a distant echo of the syllabic count per line).
It looks like a variant of Sapphic hendecasyllabic verse to me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendecasyllabic_verse
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« Reply #198 on: 12:37:06, 29-06-2007 »

It looks like a variant of Sapphic hendecasyllabic verse to me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendecasyllabic_verse
Oooh, you are clever! Smiley Smiley
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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« Reply #199 on: 12:43:41, 29-06-2007 »

Oooh, you are clever! Smiley Smiley
No, I just studied Catullus at A-Level and the 11-syllable thing rang enough bells to send me looking in wikipedia.
Unless you forgot your sarcasm tag, in which case  Tongue
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
time_is_now
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« Reply #200 on: 13:54:19, 29-06-2007 »

No sarcasm at all (Ed: isn't that a Ferneyhough piece?), hh - you genuinely made me very happy! And I haven't slept. At all. Sad So happy is good.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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« Reply #201 on: 13:58:53, 29-06-2007 »

Why no sleep? That's bad.
If I don't sleep I become very emotional and fragile, difficult to be around.
There were some references to Tennyson's use of the Sapphic hendecasyllabic scheme in that Wiki article that might be to the point.
Haven't heard No sarcasm-is-now at all but have glanced at a score.
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
time_is_now
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« Reply #202 on: 14:03:35, 29-06-2007 »

Quote
sarcasm-is-now
Touché! Kiss
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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« Reply #203 on: 22:05:52, 12-07-2007 »

Ezra Pound, Canto II

Hang it all, Robert Browning,
there can be but one "Sordello."
But Sordello, and my Sordello?
Lo Sordels si fo di Mantovana.
So-shu churned in the sea.
Seal sports in the spray-whited circles of cliff-wash,
Sleek head, daughter of Lir,
         eyes of Picasso
Under the black-fur-hood, lithe daughter of Ocean;
And the wave runs in the beach-groove:
"Eleanor, έλέναυς and έλέπτλις!"
         And poor old Homer blind, blind, as a bat,
Ear, ear for the sea-surge, murmur of old men's voices:
"Let her go back to the ships,
"Back among Grecian faces, lest evil come on our own,
"Evil and further evil, and a curse cursed on our children,
Moves, yes, she moves like a goddess
And has the face of a god
         and the voice of Schoeney's daughters,
And doom goes with her in walking,
Let her go back to the ships,
         back among Grecian voices."
And by the beach-run, Tyro,
         Twisted arms of the sea-god,
Lithe sinews of water, gripping her, cross-hold,
And the blue-gray glass of the wave tents them,
Glare azure of water, cold-welter, close cover.
Quiet sun-tawny sand-stretch,
The gulls broad out their wings,
         nipping between the splay feathers;
Snipe come for their bath,
         bend out their wing-joints,
Spread wet wings to the sun-film,
And by Scios
         to the left of Naxos passage,
Naviform rock overgrown
         algae cling to its edge,
There is a wine-red glow in the shallows,
         a tin flash in the sun-dazzle.

The ship landed in Scios,
         men wanting spring-water,
And by the rock-pool a young boy loggy with vine-must,
         "To Naxos? Yes, we'll take you to Naxos,
Cum' along lad." "Not that way!"
"Aye, that way is Naxos."
         And I said: "It's a straight ship."
And an ex-convict out of Italy
         knocked me into the fore-stays,
(He was wanted for manslaughter in Tuscany)
         And the whole twenty against me,
Mad for a little slave money.
         And they took her out of Scios
And off her course…
         And the boy came to, again, with the racket,
And looked out over the bows,
         and to eastward, and to the Naxos passage.
God-sleight then, god-sleight:
         Ship stock fast in sea-swirl,
Ivy upon the oars, King Penteus,
         grapes with no seed but sea-foam,
Ivy in scupper-hole.
Aye, I, Acoetes, stood there,
         and the god stood by me,
Water cutting under the keel,
Sea-break from stern forrards,
         wake running off from the bow,
And where was gunwale, there now was vine-trunk,
And tenthril where cordage had been,
         grape-leaves on the rowlocks,
Heavy vine on the oarshafts,
And, out of nothing, a breathing,
         hot breath on my ankles,
Beasts like shadows in glass,
         a furred tail upon nothingness.
Lynx-purr, and heathery smell of beasts,
         where tar smell had been,
Sniff and pad-foot of beasts,
         eye-glitter out of black air.
The sky overshot, dry, with no tempest,
Sniff and pad-foot of beasts,
         fur brushing my knee-skin,
Rustle of airy sheaths,
         dry forms in the aether.
And the ship like a keel in ship-yard,
         slung like an ox in smith's sling,
Ribs stuck fast in the ways,
         grape-cluster over pin-rack,
         void air taking pelt.
Lifeless air become sinewed,
         feline leisure of panthers,
Leopards sniffing the grape shoots by scupper-hole,
Crouched panthers by fore-hatch,
And the sea blue-deep about us,
         green-ruddy in shadows.
And Lycaeus: "From now, Acoetes, my altars,
Fearing no bondage,
         fearing no cat of the wood,
Safe with my lynxes,
         feeding grapes to my leopards,
Olibanum is my incense,
         the vines grow in my homage."

The back-swell now smooth in the rudder-chains,
Black snout of a porpoise
         where Lycabes had been,
Fish-scales on the oarsmen.
         And I worship.
I have seen what I have seen.
         When they brought the boy I said:
"He has a god in him,
         though I do not know which god."
And they kicked me into the fore-stays.
I have seen what I have seen:
         Medon's face like the face of a dory,
Arms shrunk into fins. And you, Pentheus,
Had as well listen to Tiresias, and to Cadmus,
         or your luck will go out of you.
Fish-scales over groin muscles,
         lynx-purr amid sea…
And of a later year,
         pale in the wine-red algae,
If you will lean over the rock,
         the coral face under wave-tinge,
Rose-paleness under water-shift,
         Ileuthyeria, fair Dafne of sea-bords,
The swimmer's arms turned to branches,
Who will say in what year,
         fleeing what band of tritons,
The smooth brows, seen, and half seen,
         now ivory stillness.

And So-chu churned in the sea, So-chu also,
         using the long moon for a churn-stick…
Lithe turning of water,
         sinews of Poseidon,
Black azure and hyaline,
         glass wave over Tyro,
Close cover, unstillness,
         bright welter of wave-cords,
Then quiet water,
         quiet in the buff sands,
Sea-fowl stretching wing-joints,
         splashing in rock-hollows and sand-hollows
In the wave-runs by the half-dune;
Glass glint of wave in the tide-rips against sunlight,
         pallor of Hesperus,
Grey peak of the wave,
         wave, colour of grape's pulp,

Olive grey in the near,
         far, smoke grey of the rock-slide,
Salmon-pink wings of the fish-hawk
         cast grey shadows in water,
The tower like a one-eyed great goose
         cranes up out of the olive-grove,

And we have heard the fauns chiding Proteus
         in the smell of hay under the olive-trees,
And the frogs singing against the fauns
         in the half light.

And...
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
harmonyharmony
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« Reply #204 on: 22:25:36, 12-07-2007 »

I've been looking at this Canto because it's spawning a piece of music. I like this corner of the Cantos, with the And And And. Informality, rampant mythologising, really chunky language, lovely images.
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
trained-pianist
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« Reply #205 on: 07:41:50, 13-07-2007 »

A student plays Medtner Fairy tale op. 14 Ophilia song.


HOW should I your true love know   
  From another one?   
By his cockle hat and staff,   
  And his sandal shoon.   
 
He is dead and gone, lady,           5
  He is dead and gone;   
At his head a grass-green turf,   
  At his heels a stone.   
 
White his shroud as the mountain snow,   
  Larded with sweet flowers,           10
Which bewept to the grave did go   
  With true-love showers.   
 
I don't understand this song completely. Is it after King Lear died? It made me understand the piece better though.
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« Reply #206 on: 09:02:23, 13-07-2007 »

It's from Hamlet t-p.
Ophelia has been rejected by Hamlet, who appears to be going mad and then kills her father.
She has a breakdown and thereafter her songs after this point mix rustic imagery of sex with laments.
In the end, she falls or jumps into the river and is drowned.
I love the play but it's terribly depressing.
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
trained-pianist
*****
Posts: 5455



« Reply #207 on: 09:27:31, 13-07-2007 »

Thank you hh. I don't know Shakespeare very well and the language is a little too difficult for me.
I really appreciate it. The student doesn't make as much progress as I like. May be I should go from the imagination and not so much from technique.
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« Reply #208 on: 23:26:41, 19-07-2007 »

You might be able to get a copy of the play from your local library which explains the language.
Because of Shakespeare's ubiquity on the school curriculum for the last eternity there are a lot of these aimed at school children.

I'm amusing myself with words like 'orgulous' (prideful) from Le Morte Darthur, and that, given Ezra Pound's dad was called Homer, it's slightly amusing that one of the structures underpinning The Cantos is Homer's Odyssey.
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
time_is_now
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« Reply #209 on: 23:55:22, 19-07-2007 »

Now I get it! Bart 'Loomis' Simpson.

D'oh!!!
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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