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Don Basilio
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« Reply #495 on: 12:24:55, 17-03-2008 » |
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hh, please don't feel chastened. "Silly" was a bit strong of me. The contrast can bring out the characters of the two artists, but saying which one is better than the other can become playground triviality.
hh - Ya boo, Herbert is WET.
DB - Don't care. Donne is FLASH. So there.
hh- Knickers to you, DB.
DB - (Further puerile trading of insults.)
You can play the same game with Tennyson and Browning. I like Tennyson, in small doses, but not so gone on Browning.
Is Dickens a realistic novelist? I doubt it.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #496 on: 12:37:47, 17-03-2008 » |
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Abishag the Shumanitess is the young girl who is put to bed with King David when he is old and dying to warm him up.
Who is dying to warm him up? Hi Turfers, hope the little one is doing fine. I am used to my inadequacies in spelling being brought to light on these boards. Here it is my punctuation or word order. Try "...with King David when he is old and dying COMMA in order to warm him up." |
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #497 on: 12:53:25, 17-03-2008 » |
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In any case one must in these things take care to distinguish between the presence of actual deficiencies in sentence structure and the simple presence of dear fellow boarders (such as, er, me) who delight in shoehorning ambiguity into every possible sentence purely for their own amusement...  |
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #498 on: 13:02:37, 17-03-2008 » |
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Ditto, t'wasn't meant to poot you in your place.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #499 on: 13:05:52, 17-03-2008 » |
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Thank you, ollie and turfers, that makes me feel better. Though after it was pointed out I can see the inevitable double entendre. Happy to add to the gaiety of nations.
STRINA - If you're still there, any comments on parallels between Herbert and Biber's Mystery Sonatas? C17 adoptions of secular forms to religious content, with some rather quaint features?
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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pim_derks
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« Reply #500 on: 13:31:47, 17-03-2008 » |
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Is Dickens a realistic novelist?
Certainly not! Dickens is a creator of mythology, as G.K. Chesterton wisely said. |
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"People hate anything well made. It gives them a guilty conscience." John Betjeman
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time_is_now
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« Reply #501 on: 13:36:44, 17-03-2008 » |
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Is Dickens a realistic novelist?
Certainly not! Dickens is a creator of mythology, as G.K. Chesterton wisely said. But you (or anyone else for that matter) could probably say that about any realistic novelist you (or they) happened to like! |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #502 on: 14:26:50, 17-03-2008 » |
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Pim has inspired me to start a thread on realism in novels in The Coffee Bar.
Just to wrap up Love III. When I was at University there was an extremely clever young man on the course in the year after me who was Jewish by birth. (Well, you can't usually be Jewish any other way. What I mean is that his practice of his ancestral faith was limited to going home for Yom Kippur, when he told me that it was so much easier to get money out of his parents after they had all been fasting together for 24 hours.)
We were very impressed that in his first tutorial he had compared Dickens to Kafka. Old hat now, I imagine, which shows how unsophisticated the rest of us were.
He was taken by Love III (there are two earlier poems called Love in the collection) and interpreted it as a dialogue between a host and a guest. He was not interested in the religious interpretation at all. The poem could describe all sorts of situations.
As ollie rightly says there are a number of giveaways as to its religious intention: the phrase "bear the blame" is the one I would chose, although that appears to take a theological position I find highly dubious. But the poem as a whole can appeal to those of no religious conviction due to its gentle ambiguity.
The young man went into advertising in the USA.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #503 on: 16:28:35, 17-03-2008 » |
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My last girlfriend would seriously upbraid you for describing Tennyson and both Brownings as silly. She might lose her temper and throw things (it's her posited PhD thesis focus). What a silly girl!  Well yes, but for other reasons. I'm not sure that I'd describe Robert Browning as silly (I don't know enough of either Alfie T or Elizabeth BB to make any judgment). What do you mean by 'silly'? |
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #504 on: 16:34:52, 17-03-2008 » |
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Robert Browning always struck me as a densely thoughtful poet - a lively intellectual disguised as a Victorian.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #505 on: 17:41:59, 17-03-2008 » |
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the poem is homoerotic, like much Christian mysticism.
I expect you know Francis Quarles's poem that Britten set as Canticle 1? I've always suspected that the homoeroticism was more important to the composer than the Christian content. What it's doing on an Italian opera site I have no idea, but it was the first link I came across: http://www.italianopera.org/lieder/l229983.htm |
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« Last Edit: 17:44:24, 17-03-2008 by Mary Chambers »
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #506 on: 17:58:42, 17-03-2008 » |
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Gosh, Mary, no I didn't know it. I'll look at it later. Thanks.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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pim_derks
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« Reply #507 on: 20:14:39, 17-03-2008 » |
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But you (or anyone else for that matter) could probably say that about any realistic novelist you (or they) happened to like! I think Chesterton was referring to the characters created by Dickens. I think Dickens's characters are more mythological than the characters we meet in the novels of Anthony Trollope or Émile Zola, to name just a few. |
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"People hate anything well made. It gives them a guilty conscience." John Betjeman
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #508 on: 21:29:12, 17-03-2008 » |
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...Then all I remember is, things reeling round,
As I sat with my head 'twixt my ears on the ground -
For imagine my shame when they asked what I meant
And I had to confess that I'd been, gone and went
And forgotten the news I was bringing to Ghent...
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #509 on: 21:30:31, 17-03-2008 » |
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Sellar and Yeatman, ollie?
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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