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Author Topic: Sylvano Bussotti  (Read 1064 times)
harmonyharmony
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« on: 15:49:52, 28-05-2007 »

I've been listening to the three Bussotti albums that have been made available to the world through the kind auspices of the Avant Garde Project: http://www.avantgardeproject.org and would like to second Richard's statement that the RARA Requiem is rather good (see here for earlier discussions: http://r3ok.myforum365.com/index.php?topic=137.570 and http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F2620066?thread=3538033 ).

Just listened to his Frammento and was pleased that it doesn't sound as much like Berio as O Atti Vocali does.

I've also sorted out the soundworlds of Bergkristall and the Lorenzaccio Symphony to the satisfaction of my ears. Might post more considered thoughts on them later.

In the mean time, Jack Straw's Castle in the BBCMB thread above asked where he could hear RARA (eco sierologo). It is to be found on the Avant Garde Project as number 55.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #1 on: 19:11:53, 28-05-2007 »

You might like to check out the disc of his piano music by Martine Joste on Mode Records (includes Pour Clavier, in my opinion one of the most important piano works of its era) and also that of Bussotti himself playing other pieces on Stradivarius.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
harmonyharmony
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« Reply #2 on: 19:25:06, 28-05-2007 »

I seem to remember you saying something about interpreting graphic scores such as Piano Piece for David Tudor at the Biennial conference on 20th century music at Goldsmiths (before you were shouted down by someone insisting that they were all rubbish and that you were too - he was nice wasn't he?). Have you ever performed it? Do you have any ideas about how you'd approach it? I was looking at it the other day and if I'm perfectly honest, I just don't know how I'd go about doing anything with any amount of integrity. The score's very beautiful, but what can you do with the information on a musical level?
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
Ian Pace
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« Reply #3 on: 19:38:09, 28-05-2007 »

I seem to remember you saying something about interpreting graphic scores such as Piano Piece for David Tudor at the Biennial conference on 20th century music at Goldsmiths (before you were shouted down by someone insisting that they were all rubbish and that you were too - he was nice wasn't he?). Have you ever performed it? Do you have any ideas about how you'd approach it? I was looking at it the other day and if I'm perfectly honest, I just don't know how I'd go about doing anything with any amount of integrity. The score's very beautiful, but what can you do with the information on a musical level?

Never played those pieces to date, but will do at some point. Like many of Bussotti's scores in that vein, they take a certain amount of creative license in translating them into sound. Whilst there are various symbols that quite obviously imply particular categories of sonic results, also many of the graphic elements are done for visual effect - with that in mind I would say one should try and take into account the visual impact made by the whole when arriving at decisions at how to make the score performable. When I'm back in London I'll have another look at them and post most more about this. Pour Clavier doesn't involve any such notation, though there are numerous partially indeterminate elements (more in the sense of 'open form' than anything else, though, allowing for different trajectories through the material (in different ways to Boulez/Stockhausen/Amy/etc) and various combinations of it either simultaneously or in succession).

Are you referring to the roundtable at the Goldsmiths' conference, with myself, Mieko and Roger Heaton on one hand, and Messrs Tilbury and Prevost on the other (the latter two spending most of the time talking about how wonderful improvisation was and how terribly constrained notated music is, and assuming that both the rest of the panel and practically anyone else at the conference had it in for improvisers)? Wink
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #4 on: 13:13:00, 29-05-2007 »

. . . someone insisting that they were all rubbish . . .

Of course they are "all rubbish" - any one with the requisite discernment sees that - the fact is at once evident - indeed they are indistinguishable from the scribblings of a madman. Here - in order that sensible Members may perceive the correctness of what we write - is one sample:


Here is another:


And here a third:


The man clearly does not qualify even as a seventh-rater on a scale of seven; instead he falls among the category of the charlatans and pseudo-composers.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #5 on: 13:52:44, 29-05-2007 »

Mr Grew, what exactly is your problem with those scores?
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teleplasm
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« Reply #6 on: 14:20:39, 29-05-2007 »

Mr Grew, what exactly is your problem with those scores?

 Huh

I thought he had just made that very clear. They're all notation (of a sort) and no music. But it all raises an important philosophical question: if I simply write down on a piece of paper, "Play something on a piano", is that a score? Its counterparts in the visual arts win Turner Prizes.
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TimR-J
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« Reply #7 on: 14:39:14, 29-05-2007 »

Mr Grew, what exactly is your problem with those scores?

 Huh

I thought he had just made that very clear. They're all notation (of a sort) and no music. But it all raises an important philosophical question: if I simply write down on a piece of paper, "Play something on a piano", is that a score?

Yes.
Its counterparts in the visual arts win Turner Prizes.

That's another question: whether your score is actually any good.

(And a third question - whether 'good art' tends to win Turner Prizes.)
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richard barrett
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« Reply #8 on: 14:39:30, 29-05-2007 »

They're all notation (of a sort) and no music
This doesn't really answer the question. I don't know what could be meant by "all notation and no music". If notation can be defined in the most general terms as a graphical means of communication between composer and performer, then, just as in any other area of communication, like poetry for example, notation can use its "language" precisely and explicitly, or, as here, in a more elusive and ambiguous way. Why not begin by assuming that the composer has encapsulated his musical ideas here in what he felt to be the most appropriate way, and proceed to ask oneself why that might be, rather than jumping to the conclusion that he is a charlatan.

Moreover, of these three examples, the first comes with an explanatory note (not reproduced by Grew), while the other two are single pages from more extended works which also (and principally) use a more traditional form of notation - another reason not to jump to unwarranted conclusions about the composer's intentions. I suspect that Grew has only seen these pages and not the rest of the scores from which they come, which would hardly place him in a position of authority regarding them.

So no, the problem he has is not at all clear, stemming as it almost certainly does from a position of ignorance and narrow-mindedness.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #9 on: 15:57:25, 29-05-2007 »

all notation (of a sort) and no music
And notation isn't music? Huh

I'm afraid we think the good Mr Grew is barking up the proverbially incorrect with this one. I thought I might bring him round with a nice picture of Signor Bussotti all camped up in a lovely gold tunic but I can't seem to find an online source for this sartorial marvel. I may resort to a scanner if I can find some time later on.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
teleplasm
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« Reply #10 on: 16:28:24, 29-05-2007 »

all notation (of a sort) and no music
And notation isn't music? Huh

No more than a stream of letters of the aphabet, puctuation marks, and lined paper is language, even when accompanied by an implied invitation to make something of it. Music has come to something when such a question is even put, let alone when the answer being pressed is 'yes'.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #11 on: 16:37:39, 29-05-2007 »

Quote
aphabet
Quote
puctuation marks
What was that about a stream of letters? Wink

Quote
lined paper is language, even when accompanied by an implied invitation
Indeed. There's one for Julien, surely.

Lined paper is language, especially when accompanied by an implied invitation.

Lined paper is language, especially when accompanied.

Language is accompanied, especially when lined with paper.

Lined with paper, language has been known to become L A N G U A G E.

<cue Mahler 2nd> da- dA-da- da-da- da-da- ...

"Thank you, Maestro Bussotti."
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
teleplasm
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« Reply #12 on: 16:39:18, 29-05-2007 »

Mr Grew, what exactly is your problem with those scores?

 Huh

I thought he had just made that very clear. They're all notation (of a sort) and no music. But it all raises an important philosophical question: if I simply write down on a piece of paper, "Play something on a piano", is that a score?

Yes.
Its counterparts in the visual arts win Turner Prizes.

That's another question: whether your score is actually any good.

(And a third question - whether 'good art' tends to win Turner Prizes.)

What criteria could possibly be used to ascertain whether such a score is good? If someone sits down and plays a good sonata, that doesn't make my score good, because the sonata owed nothing to my score. This becomes clearer if my 'score' consists of the words, "Play a Beethoven sonata".
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richard barrett
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« Reply #13 on: 16:40:29, 29-05-2007 »

Music has come to something when such a question is even put, let alone when the answer being pressed is 'yes'.
Indeed: music had come to quite an interesting point when composers started looking into how notation works and trying to express something about their explorations, rather than taking everything for granted in the way you seem to have chosen.

Discussion of music has come to something when words like "charlatan" and "notation... but no music" are bandied around without any knowledge of or interest in the music which is supposedly under discussion. Teleplasm, do you really see the world in such simple terms? If so you're missing a great deal.
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teleplasm
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« Reply #14 on: 16:41:37, 29-05-2007 »

Quote
aphabet
Quote
puctuation marks
What was that about a stream of letters? Wink

Quote
lined paper is language, even when accompanied by an implied invitation
Indeed. There's one for Julien, surely.

Lined paper is language, especially when accompanied by an implied invitation.

Lined paper is language, especially when accompanied.

Language is accompanied, especially when lined with paper.

Lined with paper, language has been known to become L A N G U A G E.

<cue Mahler 2nd> da- dA-da- da-da- da-da- ...

"Thank you, Maestro Bussotti."

Gibberish is still gibberish even when it's in the form of an incantation.
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