richard barrett
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« on: 13:24:26, 22-09-2007 » |
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So, Tom Service reckons he has finally uncovered the secret of Sibelius' abandoning composition for the last thirty years of his life. I reckon this is fluff to fill out a newspaper column. Anyone else with more considered thoughts than that?
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time_is_now
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« Reply #1 on: 13:33:04, 22-09-2007 » |
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I read it on the train on Thursday morning (I don't buy the Guardian, but someone left the arts section on the seat next to me).
I thought it was fluff by a fluffer. And that's still my considered thought, 52 hours later.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #2 on: 13:35:57, 22-09-2007 » |
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So, Tom Service reckons he has finally uncovered the secret of Sibelius' abandoning composition for the last thirty years of his life. I reckon this is fluff to fill out a newspaper column. Anyone else with more considered thoughts than that? The explanation for Sibelius not being played so often in Germany (is he not?) hardly seems very plausible - if that were the case, you'd have thought Richard Strauss or Orff or others wouldn't be played either, which they are.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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time_is_now
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« Reply #3 on: 13:38:54, 22-09-2007 » |
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The explanation for Sibelius not being played so often in Germany (is he not?) hardly seems very plausible - if that were the case, you'd have thought Richard Strauss or Orff or others wouldn't be played either, which they are.
I was just about to comment on that paragraph - it doesn't seem to fit into the line of argument at that point, really. Sounds as if he'd just picked up another tidbit of information and was looking for a place to slot it in. I could go through the whole article almost line by line pointing out both what he's omitted to say and the logical flaws in what he has said. Don't know if it's really worth it though.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #4 on: 13:50:00, 22-09-2007 » |
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Anyone else with more considered thoughts than that? We predict with confidence that in eight hundred years' time forensic science will have developed to a point at which its exercise will be capable of yielding accurate reconstructions not only of Sibelius's lost Eighth Symphony but also of all Bach's lost Cantatas. We suppose that the expectation rather than the mere hope of such eventual reconstruction is one of the subconscious reasons for men's preservation of the houses of great composers. It is very like the ancestor cults found among savages is not it?
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time_is_now
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« Reply #5 on: 13:55:26, 22-09-2007 » |
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Can expectation be distinguished from hope at a subconscious level?
And, back on topic, might it not have been worth mentioning some other contemporary music influenced by Sibelius besides the Finnish note-spinners so beloved of the Guardian plus Tom Service's London friends? Feldman? Grisey? Even John Adams might have been a start, not least in allowing Service to comment on the evident fact (evident to the rest of us, anyway) that Sibelius's music has often, including in his own lifetime, been found quite approachable and popular - a fact which gives the lie to Service's sensationalist reading of Tapiola as some sort of impenetrable black hole of musical modernism.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #6 on: 14:00:44, 22-09-2007 » |
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I'm forever looking for some appreciation of Scandinavian music in general that conceives it in terms other than bleak, windswept landscapes with stark contrasts of light, and so on and so forth. Rarely does justice to what else is going in much of the best work (Sariaaho, Rehnqvist, some Sorenson, etc., or Sibelius for that matter).
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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time_is_now
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« Reply #7 on: 14:14:37, 22-09-2007 » |
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I'm forever looking for some appreciation of Scandinavian music in general that conceives it in terms other than bleak, windswept landscapes with stark contrasts of light, and so on and so forth. It's not always perfect, but Dan Grimley has done some interesting work on Scandinavian music from Grieg through Sibelius and Nielsen in terms of geographical marginality, relations with the folk vs. art music topos in 19th-century music, etc. James Hepokoski's book (in the Cambridge Music Handbooks series) on Sibelius's Fifth Symphony is also excellent - especially on questions of form, and dialogue with C19th European formal concepts, as well as trying to develop a much more specific conception, based on source work, of Klang as a Sibelian concept (almost proto-spectral in some ways) rather than a vague idea of 'Northern austerity'. Rarely does justice to what else is going in much of the best work (Sariaaho, Rehnqvist, some Sorenson, etc., or Sibelius for that matter). What do you think is going on in those composers?
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #8 on: 14:19:14, 22-09-2007 » |
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James Hepokoski's book (in the Cambridge Music Handbooks series) on Sibelius's Fifth Symphony is also excellent - especially on questions of form, and dialogue with C19th European formal concepts, as well as trying to develop a much more specific conception, based on source work, of Klang as a Sibelian concept (almost proto-spectral in some ways) rather than a vague idea of 'Northern austerity'. Yes, must read that - I know a little of Hepokoski's other work (especially on Dahlhaus) and have rather mixed feelings, but can imagine this would be good. Rarely does justice to what else is going in much of the best work (Sariaaho, Rehnqvist, some Sorenson, etc., or Sibelius for that matter). What do you think is going on in those composers? Well, I haven't studied the work in sufficient detail to say anything especially comprehensive, but overall what I hear seems as much about particular forms of psychological trajectories, intimate emotional combinations, of many types, rather than always being primarily descriptive. And there is some element of working through the immanent possibilities of the material in a more abstract sense, rather than simply spinning things out - the latter of course occurs as well, but by no means all of the time. That said, I've not been much taken by the music that Sariaaho has written in the last 15 years or so.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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time_is_now
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« Reply #9 on: 14:23:25, 22-09-2007 » |
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That said, I've not been much taken by the music that Sariaaho has written in the last 15 years or so.
I'm not sure I'm much taken with what she was writing before that, either, I'm afraid. The name I'd be most keen to add to your list is Per Nørgård.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #10 on: 16:34:45, 22-09-2007 » |
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Service's piece is slight and shallow (but then it appears in the Guardian, so we should expect nothing less) and tells us nothing we didn't already know. Personally, I'm attracted to the idea that Sibelius, once he had secured a substantial pension from the Finnish government, saw no reason to continue working, and so stopped. Although possibly apocryphal, this story - if true -shows him to be the possessor of an endearing sense of humour and a refreshingly worldly outlook. My sort of guy, in other words.
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« Last Edit: 16:36:34, 22-09-2007 by Swan_Knight »
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...so flatterten lachend die Locken....
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #11 on: 17:23:00, 22-09-2007 » |
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Is one seriously supposed to believe that Tom Service hopped on a flight to Helsinki, and solved unaided the problem in 24 hours the question that Sibelius scholars like Lionel Pike have been wrestling with for 30+ years?
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House" - Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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richard barrett
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« Reply #12 on: 17:45:27, 22-09-2007 » |
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Is one seriously supposed to believe that Tom Service hopped on a flight to Helsinki, and solved unaided the problem in 24 hours the question that Sibelius scholars like Lionel Pike have been wrestling with for 30+ years?
Obviously you didn't know that the Guardian's award-winning journalists are the best in the world. I've been interviewed by Tom Service. He's one of those journalists in whose company you have to watch every word because the most irrelevant and throwaway things are certain to be what gets into the article.
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #13 on: 18:28:51, 22-09-2007 » |
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Is one seriously supposed to believe that Tom Service hopped on a flight to Helsinki, and solved unaided the problem in 24 hours the question that Sibelius scholars like Lionel Pike have been wrestling with for 30+ years?
I suppose one should be grateful they didn't get Joe Queenan to write it.
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #14 on: 20:25:56, 22-09-2007 » |
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I'm forever looking for some appreciation of Scandinavian music in general Finns prefer the term "Nordic". They are neither linguistically nor geographically part of Scandinavia, and become most irked by this nomenclature (although they are usually too charming to make mention of it).
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House" - Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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