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thompson1780
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« on: 09:54:30, 27-09-2007 » |
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I'm trying to decide upon a new violin concerto to learn, and I'm very taken by parts of Szymanowski No.1
Any other Szymanowski I should listen to?
Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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richard barrett
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« Reply #1 on: 10:06:18, 27-09-2007 » |
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I don't know much about Szymanowski but the first concerto is easily the most attractive piece of those I've heard so far. His later work tends to get a bit folksy in a sub-Bartók sort of way, I think. I'd be very interested to hear where someone who's been captivated by that concerto ought to go next.
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TimR-J
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« Reply #2 on: 10:21:57, 27-09-2007 » |
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The Stabat Mater is the usual recommendation, and it is nice in that lush post-romantic sort of way. Big chunks of it are echoed in Third Symphony-era Górecki (and many other mid-1970s Poles). More than a few hints of Messiaen-ic harmony, too. folksy in a sub-Bartók sort of way Who isn't? There's quite a bit of Szym on Naxos if you want to experiment a little. For my money, I like the Mazurkas best; Marc André Hamelin does a complete set on Hyperion. |
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ahinton
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« Reply #3 on: 10:27:20, 27-09-2007 » |
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My best suggestions here are the second violin concerto (there's a new Naxos CD containing both, although I've not yet heard it) - although a late work, this has little of the folksiness that Richard talks about that is rather more prevalent in other later Szymanowski - and then perhaps the Concert Overture and second and third symphonies and second and third piano sonatas, before going on to Król Roger. There's much else worth investigating, to be sure, but I think that these works might be a good kind of "proving-ground" for those not yet familiar with the work of this wonderful yet, until relatively recently underappreciated (except in his own country) composer. The second sonata and second symphony date from a time when KS was under the somewhat heady influence of Richard Strauss and Joseph Marx (the latter was a friend of his), albeit never to the detriment of his own deveoping musical character; the Concert Overture is good for a laugh, because it is almost more like Richard Strauss than Richard Strauss himself, although were it not for the sheer brilliance of its craftsmanship and orchestral expertise, it might be rather easily dismissible!
Happy hunting!
Best,
Alistair
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #4 on: 11:30:44, 27-09-2007 » |
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Any other Szymanowski I should listen to? We are very enthusiastic about his four Piano Studies opus 4 of 1902, and the first (actually third but two are lost) Piano Sonata opus 8 of 1904. Also we hope that his homosexualistic novel Ephebos will one day turn up in its entirety. |
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #5 on: 11:53:33, 27-09-2007 » |
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Stabat Mater, Król Roger (especially the first act) and Harnasie are the three works I return to most, Tommo.
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #6 on: 13:37:41, 27-09-2007 » |
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I'd certainly hunt out Krol Roger - I don't know whether there is a more atmospheric opening chorus in the whole operatic canon, and the rest of it is pretty compelling too. There used to be a fairly decent Naxos set.
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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Chafing Dish
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« Reply #7 on: 13:42:38, 27-09-2007 » |
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We are talking about Pavel Szymanowski, right?
No? Sorry..
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time_is_now
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« Reply #8 on: 14:03:39, 27-09-2007 » |
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Also we hope that his homosexualistic novel Ephebos will one day turn up in its entirety.
We predict with confidence that in eight hundred years' time forensic science will have developed to a point at which its exercise will be capable of yielding accurate reconstructions of the entire lost world of prelapsarian (by which we of course mean pre-1908) homosexualistical literature. Gentlemen, a whole gay Gondwana awaits the archaeologists historians literary aficionados and homosexuals of the twenty-ninth century! |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #9 on: 14:18:21, 27-09-2007 » |
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His later work tends to get a bit folksy in a sub-Bartók sort of way, I think.
At risk of derailing the thread, I'm wondering if 'folksy' is considered a bad thing per se? Or is it perhaps only a bad thing when it's in a sub-Bartók sort of way? (Obligatory on-topic bit: I have also been captivated by the violin concerto but it's the only Szymanowski I know.) |
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Allegro, ma non tanto
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richard barrett
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« Reply #10 on: 14:58:12, 27-09-2007 » |
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I'm wondering if 'folksy' is considered a bad thing per se? Or is it perhaps only a bad thing when it's in a sub-Bartók sort of way?
The latter is what I had in mind! |
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #11 on: 15:03:08, 27-09-2007 » |
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I can second (or I guess more like fourth) the Stabat Mater recommendation; it was my first Szymanowski way back in college (ah, those wild times), and it hooked me immediately. Tim is right to point out its anticipation of the "holy minimalist" stuff, but it's also got that typical Szym lushness and harmonic coloring. A beautiful piece. (I only know the Naxos recording; I imagine Simon Rattle's is likely to be better...)
The string quartets are worth a spin, but the piano music is for me the other place that it's at. Sort of halfway between Chopin, Scriabin, and Rachmaninoff, or something; beautiful, lush harmonies, atmospheric textures, big chords; wonderful stuff in that charmingly overripe late-Romantic vein. I find the Naxos recordings with Martin Roscoe to be quite nice.
King Roger as a whole I enjoy hearing but I've never quite broken the surface of it.
Start with the Stabat Mater, though.
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autoharp
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« Reply #12 on: 20:23:54, 28-09-2007 » |
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Glad to hear you're taking up the Violin concerto, Tommo!
Also from that rich 1914-7 period are the 3 Mythes for violin + piano. Particular interesting violin writing as well - one of his close friends was the violinist Kochanski who wrote the cadenza in the 1st violin concerto. The music from this time is often sumptuous, glittery, abundant in rich colour and detail - its a fair bet to say that if you like one work, you'll like most of them. There's the 3rd Symphony, Masques, Metopes and 3rd sonata (all piano solo), and also the very tasty little-known Demeter.
The governor recorded performance of the 1st concerto is by Wanda Wilkomirska (fantastic violinist !) and the Warsaw National Phil SO under Witold Rowicki - she's also recorded the Mythes (haven't heard it). And my favourite 3rd Symphony is the same orchestra + conductor. I'm no great Rattle fan, at least as far as his Szymanowski performances are concerned.
Some other pieces from this period are somewhat unsumptuous and brittle - parts of the 3rd sonata and the 1st string quartet. I find the quartet difficult to get on with but the sonata is a really major piece. If you're into crazy fugue subjects (doesn't immediately seem likely, does it ?), you'll find them in both the 2nd + 3rd sonatas. The second sonata's rather earlier - impressive + contains a healthy dose of Reger.
The later stuff from the 1920s is generally far less lush but not necessarily less impassioned (eg Harnasie), rich but austere and darker coloured (eg Stabat mater), sometimes with reference to the folk-music of the Zakopane district. I don't share Richard's feeling about the sub-Bartok folksiness at all. Although I could understand that view if you've had an overdose of the piano mazurkas.
I'm fascinated by what Tim wrote about the influence of the Stabat mater. What other works apart from Gorecki's 3rd symphony? I've often wondered about the string sound/writing of Szymanowski's 3rd symphony and its effect on later composers. And the kind of ornate, improvisatory filigree writing (particularly in high registers) so characteristic of the middle period works was of course something which Sorabji (if no-one else ?) took up.
Alistair has rightly drawn attention to his skilled and highly imaginative orchestration. Find out in the 3rd symphony. Opera - King Roger - Ron's right - the 1st part is far stronger. And the earlier stuff ? Lots of Chopin + Strauss there (and Reger) so it's less individual. Good piano works like the Op 4 Studies, as Sydney recommends.
And the main theme of the 2nd symphony is Nellie Dean.
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ahinton
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« Reply #13 on: 22:53:48, 28-09-2007 » |
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And the main theme of the 2nd symphony is Nellie Dean.
I could cheerfully wring your neck for that one! OK - the first four notes (and even then not exactly) - but there's another thread for this kind of thing... That said, I do very much share your obvious enthusiasm for this immensely important composer (and I've not yet said so but I do entirely endorse others' comments about the Stabat Mater). However, even the Strauss/Reger/Marx-oriented music could never have been written by any of those composers; Szymanowski went through quite a variety of influences at various times, of course (which is hardly unusual), yet there is almost always a personal strength of character underpinning his work that allows an individuality to shine out even in those works of his less-than-maturity, it seems to me. To return to that Second Symphony; I do not know why it has never become more staple fare in the concert hall, for it is undoubtedly one of the finer symphonic works of its time outside the Mahler canon. By the way, I am delighted to have been told who you are at last night's Warehouse concert, for I did not previously know! Best, Alistair |
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #14 on: 09:31:55, 29-09-2007 » |
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No-one has yet mentioned the 4th Symphony which is really a Piano Concerto - a lovely piece, not so over-the-top as some other Szymanowski (not that that is a problem when it is done so well!) Stabat Mater - YESSS!!! Totally agree with Alistair about the Concert Overture and Autoharp re Rattle in this music.
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