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Author Topic: Simpson Schönberg and the Ghost of Tonality  (Read 175 times)
Mrs. Kerfoops
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« on: 07:00:09, 23-10-2008 »

The Leamington man Robert Simpson wrote but destroyed four entire symphonies before he got going. It reminds one of Brahms does it not? Here is his conclusion:

"Schönberg is far from being my favorite composer, but it so happens that the idea for a new treatment of tonality came to me from listening, not to Nielsen or any other composer I love, but to Schönberg's Piano Concerto, many years ago. It struck me that in spite of the serial technique the work was fixed to a tonal centre, which loomed periodically behind the murk, and was deliberately avoided at the end - as if Schönberg had finally made a fearsome effort to exorcise a ghost. I thought then, though I didn't know how, that it might be possible to make a positive use of this phenomenon. I didn't want, as Schönberg did, to deny tonality - I wanted to find a way to make tonal centres react against each other, not make non-tonality react against tonality. I felt (and still feel) that to try to anaesthetise the listener's tonal sense was to deny oneself a powerful means of expression. So atonality was not for me."

But the thing is "atonality" was not for Schönberg either. He rejected it as absurd and promoted pantonality which is a procedure very different from both "atonality" and "non-tonality."

Do members agree that his Piano Concerto is fixed to a tonal centre and contains that looming ghost? Whose music do they prefer - Simpson's or Schönberg's? And by the bye how could any one possibly love Nielsen?
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #1 on: 09:30:45, 23-10-2008 »

.... And by the bye how could any one possibly love Nielsen?

To which an obvious rejoinder from some listeners might well be 'but how could anyone not love at least some of his music?'.

It's all down to the wiring of an individual's brain, surely? The reasons behind anyone's love or loathing for any music (be it a genre, an oeuvre, or even just a specific piece), are complex emotional and psychological mysteries and closely related to the reasons why different humans' reactions to others (even the same other) can vary wildly.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #2 on: 20:24:25, 23-10-2008 »

Who is Simpson Schönberg?
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martle
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« Reply #3 on: 20:29:53, 23-10-2008 »

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Green. Always green.
time_is_now
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« Reply #4 on: 21:12:21, 23-10-2008 »

The Leamington man Robert Simpson wrote but destroyed four entire symphonies before he got going. It reminds one of Brahms does it not? Here is his conclusion:

"Schönberg is far from being my favorite composer, but it so happens that the idea for a new treatment of tonality came to me from listening, not to Nielsen or any other composer I love, but to Schönberg's Piano Concerto, many years ago. It struck me that in spite of the serial technique the work was fixed to a tonal centre, which loomed periodically behind the murk, and was deliberately avoided at the end - as if Schönberg had finally made a fearsome effort to exorcise a ghost. I thought then, though I didn't know how, that it might be possible to make a positive use of this phenomenon. I didn't want, as Schönberg did, to deny tonality - I wanted to find a way to make tonal centres react against each other, not make non-tonality react against tonality. I felt (and still feel) that to try to anaesthetise the listener's tonal sense was to deny oneself a powerful means of expression. So atonality was not for me."

But the thing is "atonality" was not for Schönberg either. He rejected it as absurd and promoted pantonality which is a procedure very different from both "atonality" and "non-tonality."

Do members agree that his Piano Concerto is fixed to a tonal centre and contains that looming ghost? Whose music do they prefer - Simpson's or Schönberg's? And by the bye how could any one possibly love Nielsen?
I don't think Schönberg recognised atonality as something that existed but was absurd, did he? He rather found the word an absurd label for what he was doing. I tend to take the view myself that it's not such a problematic term once we get into his serial period; however, I'd also agree that the ghost of tonality is often present in the works of that period. In the Piano Concerto it's so conscious (and in a way, so contrived) that this is less interesting than in certain other works.

As for Simpson, he's much less of a 'tonal' composer than is often thought. His way of putting pitches together in a piece like the Ninth Symphony is not very far from Lutoslawski's or Carter's. But I usually find the middleground and background activity in his symphonies more interesting than the foreground, and I think you could certainly see the influence of a notional dialogue between tonal and non-tonal organising principles there.

'By the by', isn't it? And why was the Leamington man Robert Simpson spelling 'favourite' like an American?
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Mrs. Kerfoops
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« Reply #5 on: 14:21:17, 24-10-2008 »

'By the by', isn't it? And why was the Leamington man Robert Simpson spelling 'favourite' like an American?

No actually it is all right Mr. Now and commonly found in pre-1908 novels. Sometimes it is hyphenated as seen in the second example, but really the unhyphenated form is better is not it. In our own era it seems of course largely to have been supplanted by "by the way."


The "favorite" was cut and pasted from the notes accompanying a recording of his complete String Quartets, with which we hope one day to become as familiar as you evidently and enviably are with his Ninth Symphony!
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