I don't know his symphonies that well. I know them ofcourse (some of them better than others), but not as well as I would if I played them.
The last piece of his I played was cello sonata. I lookied through his viola sonata (that is his last piece).
May be it became almost standard for composers to replace four with augmented fourth. It is our attempt at harmony and perfection failed. From his music it is clear that he found outside world is intrusive and he loved his inner world and would not let anyone inside.

Those have been discussed in several other threads previously; I don't particularly want to run over the same territory again.


Maybe not in that opera, but in Die Meistersinger or Siegfried audiences in Wagner's own time, at least, may well have picked up the anti-semitic cliches, well-known as such, that at least arguably informed the characterisations of Beckmesser and Mime.


Again, I have been through that before (and I picked up on those elements before I'd read any of the writings - the writings confirmed what I heard in the music, rather than vice versa); very quickly, to do with the contrived mysticism, the elimination of the individualised subject and all forms of personalised emotion; essentially the eschewal of all human elements from music. In terms of settings of Verlaine, Mallarmé and Baudelaire, you might want to consider some of the ideologies at play in their work as well.

You'll need to be more specific here if I am to answer your question more directly[/quote]

I'll have to find the exact quote again when I'm next in a library. I will do so.


Whether or not it is possible to parade racial theories in music (and, come on, you know exactly what I'm referring to here in terms of his ideas) is an interesting question; certainly I can't imagine one could thoroughly deny that nationalistic ideologies can be expressed in musical terms, nor that much music is often heard in such a way.


Well, you and other Sorabji-ites seem extremely interested in the man, and in his ideas. Are we going to see those left alone in subsequent writings on Sorabji's work?


Indeed; I will copy this message there.

That phrase founded on consecutive fourths a tone apart wasn't my in imagination, although I'll admit it does include one extra note used as a passing note.

It's the cell first heard at 08:24/Bar 307/5 before [34] in the first violins: a dotted crochet Eb followed by semiquavers F - Eb - F - D - C - Bb, which reappears prominently in modified form (C, D - C - D - B - D - A - G) twice on the oboes, clarinets, horns and violins before being repeated twice further, a tone lower, immediately after by bass clarinet, bassoon, the trombones and cellos as one of the two major components of the big climax at 11:31/Bar 436/[47].

It also occurs twice at the climax of the cor anglais solo towards the end of the same movement, too (21:24/Bar 965/3 after [98]); firstly as Gb, Ab - Gb - Ab - F - Eb - Db, then as D - C - D - B - D - A - G, which, incidentally, just happens to be an augmented fourth lower......

Rehearsal numbers in green for Richard...

Incidentally, on the subject of Mravinsky's recorded output of the Shostakovich symphonies, the reason why there was never a recording of the 13th or 14th (and presumably also the 4th) is quite revealing, and provides further evidence against those who consider that the composer was some sort of favoured darling of the state. Mravinsky's wife was quite a high-ranking party official, and for this reason he refused to be involved with any of Shostakovich's works which were considered risky or unacceptable. Kondrashin, on the other hand, had no such qualms.....

When I get several moments I'll add rehearsal figures throughout, r. But at the moment we've a minor crisis; one of Junior's pals has lost the van keys, which might have happened in my car, or possibly the house (where they're all staying whilst working). Every five minutes I'm getting frantic calls asking me to check increasingly unlikely places....

More on the Fourth Symphony...

Having already mentioned the fourths, perfect and augmented, as well as the semitone implicit in the C - F - Db - Gb cell, just a quick thought about the thirds. Within any perfect triad there will always be one major and one minor third, major at the base with a minor on top for a major triad, and the opposite way round for a minor. The implied position of the third within a triad will decide whether it's to be a minor or major.

Although the cell implies a major third, the dominant C minor nature of the eventual fourth symphony means that it's the minor rather than the major third which becomes a major building block. I've already mentioned its use as the halting bass line below the bassoon's theme in the first movement (07:18/ Bar 261/ fig. [31]), but bearing in mind my present interest in the use of cells made up from an identical interval semitones or tones apart, there’s a cell of minor thirds which turns up in the middle and last movements.

 In the middle movement, it occurs in a tone-apart variety at 03:36/ Bar 176 / 4 before [129] as the upper strings try to subvert the three-in-bar-feeling: E-E-E-Csharp, E-E-E-Csharp, D-B (and are the thrice-repeated notes a reminiscence or the all pervasive triplets from the first movement?), while in the last movement it’s the major material for a climactic sequence which begins just before the three minute mark (Bar 48/ 4 before [160]), where high strings, reinforced by most of the higher winds, settle after a lead-in climb of an augmented fifth into a semitone-apart pattern: three Abs and an F, followed by three Gs and an E, before climbing up in the same rhythmic pattern to a statement of the fourth, three Cs and a G, reinforced by the xylophone for incisive clarity over the brass, before subsiding downwards. These semitone-apart thirds make up the same shape as S-C-D-H, and a suggestion that this may not be accidental lies in the shape of the first phrase of the violin theme which grows over the dying four note rhythm C-D-C-Eb-Bb-Cb(=B)-Bb, which is another rearrangement of the DSCH shape in the 'right' key.

I’m becoming more and more convinced that despite its apparently rather undisciplined structure, Shostakovich’s Fourth Symphony is bound together by a syntax of small rhythmic and motivic cells which are constantly informing the creation and development of the themes which make up all three movements, thus giving an internal logic to its musical progression even when its dramatic and emotional swings are at their most extreme.

Indeed so - and so much so, I think, that it is in this very symphony (arguably one of the composer's most fascinating and spectacular achievements, desipte its having been composed when still in his 20s) that Shostakovich comes as close to Mahler as anywhere in his symphonic output.

Best,

Alistair