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Author Topic: who was Shostakovich?  (Read 25287 times)
Tony Watson
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« Reply #30 on: 12:48:13, 23-03-2007 »

I don't think that's a natural picture of Shostakovich. He's deliberately trying to come over as a serious artist and an idealistic communist. Then again, there aren't many photos of him smiling.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #31 on: 13:04:17, 23-03-2007 »

Stravinsky adored having his picture taken, quite happily posing nude for one snap taken in his earlier days ...
Ron!?! Do you have the evidence for this?!?

(Not sure I really want to see it, I hasten to add! But I don't think I'll rest until I've found out ...)
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #32 on: 13:16:36, 23-03-2007 »

Yes, I've seen the picture, which was included in a book called Stravinsky in Pictures and Documents by Vera Stravinsky and Robert Craft, published in 1978. There was quite a feature on the book in one of the weekend colour supplements (those were the days!) and the article included several pictures, this one among them. It's not impossible that I still have the magazine in storage, but no doubt someone with access to a more sophisticated library than Carnoustie Public will be able to locate the original tome...

(If you read through the reviews of this book, you'll see mention of the photo, which proves that I haven't made it up: it obviously provides a second location for the picture, too....)

http://www.amazon.com/Stravinsky-Inside-Out-Charles-Joseph/dp/0300075375
« Last Edit: 13:24:52, 23-03-2007 by Ron Dough » Logged
George Garnett
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« Reply #33 on: 13:47:58, 23-03-2007 »

....no doubt someone with access to a more sophisticated library than Carnoustie Public will be able to locate the original tome...

I wouldn't want to set up my own modest 'library' in a sophistication competition with Carnoustie Public, Ron, but I do happen to own a copy of that very book. I can't say I actually remember that picture though I do recall one of Stravinsky in a rather splendid striped bathing costume doing his morning exercises.

Purely as a service to interested scholars on this Board, I will now spend a little time leafing through in search of a photograph of the Stravinskian willy (can I really be doing this?) and report back with my findings.

[Later: Hmm, well, I don't want to disappoint anyone but the only photograph I can find of I.S. naked is a charming photo of him in the garden of his Hollywood home in 1946 with the caption 'Adam in Eden'. He is indeed apparently naked except for his spectacles but there is small shrub (although sadly not labelled 'Privet Keep Out') between us and anything that would be of interest to those in the New Phallomusicology school of criticism. Is that the one you were thinking of, Ron?

We now return listeners to the Shostakovich thread.]
« Last Edit: 08:28:29, 04-03-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
Ron Dough
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« Reply #34 on: 17:08:32, 23-03-2007 »

Not the one I had in mind, GG: it's a much earlier picture, taken before he left Russia: from what I can recall, he's posing on a wooden jetty...

(Possibly the most bizarre sidetrack I've yet to have been involved in...)
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time_is_now
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« Reply #35 on: 17:21:57, 23-03-2007 »

Not the one I had in mind, GG
So he did it twice?!

Which means he was a serial nudist long before he became a nude serialist ...
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
George Garnett
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« Reply #36 on: 17:50:25, 23-03-2007 »

How very odd. This is definitely "Stravinsky in Pictures and Documents by Vera Stravinsky and Robert Craft, Hutchinson 1978". Packed with extraordinary photographs, including one of a fifteen month old little Igor looking absolutely ferocious, and one in almost exactly the same pose, setting and age as that one of Shostakovich that started all this off, but that's the only nude Igor I can find. Perhaps I was palmed off with the expurgated edition?
« Last Edit: 08:30:28, 04-03-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
trained-pianist
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« Reply #37 on: 18:00:25, 23-03-2007 »

Stravinsky and Furtwängler[

I am looking now with suspicion in his eyes. Do people have any comments?


« Last Edit: 20:12:27, 23-03-2007 by trained-pianist » Logged
George Garnett
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« Reply #38 on: 18:06:34, 23-03-2007 »

Harry Potter!!

But at least it gets us back to Shostakovich. I am now going to settle down with Symphony No 4, Second Movement with a copy of Ron's commentary to hand.
« Last Edit: 18:08:16, 23-03-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
trained-pianist
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« Reply #39 on: 18:09:10, 23-03-2007 »

Exactly the same face. Why did not I think of that? It has to go to another thread. Can you do it George?
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #40 on: 18:38:44, 23-03-2007 »

Not the one I had in mind, GG: it's a much earlier picture, taken before he left Russia: from what I can recall, he's posing on a wooden jetty...

(Possibly the most bizarre sidetrack I've yet to have been involved in...)

Page 70, Stravinsky Inside Out (ironic title in this context, that) by Charles Joseph.  Stravinsky is indeed standing on some sort of decrepit little wooden jetty on a riverbank, facing left but with head turned toward the camera, quite verifiably and thoroughly nude.  There's a bony white cow in the background, on the other side of the river; it's also nude.

The caption given is "Stravinsky the exhibitionist, summer 1912."
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #41 on: 23:59:56, 23-03-2007 »

Talking of nude composers, Peter Warlock (Philip Heseltine) used to ride a bicycle naked around parts of Cornwall.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #42 on: 07:51:45, 24-03-2007 »

Well, as I've just said over in the other thread, I'm a recent convert. . . . I suddenly lost all conviction in my own position. I . . . felt the scales dropping from my eyes . . . and so the time is now ripe, I feel, for a time_is_now Shostakovich odyssey.

Mr. T. Now you have decided us to give Shortakovich one more try. We admire your determination and have been persuaded that we should emulate you. In due course then we too shall come back with a report to this thread. The mid-point between 1 and 15 is 8, so we shall listen to the Eighth "symphony".

And in the other thread about "musical camp" you very interestingly wrote:

"I might explain that the realisation which rescued me from my Shotchauvitch-resistant tunnel vision was this: that in the 'new music' I value most I recognise, and appreciate, aesthetic awkwardness, forced 'dumb'-ness, and all sorts of other stagings of the impossibility of a pre-1908-style reconciliation of art to the world; and that I really ought not to be so prissy about Shosta for having staged such an impossibility in what appear, or perhaps rather pretend, to be the more traditionally-valued forms of symphony and string quartet."

In fact the whole of the human race can be thus described, can it not? As an "awkwardness" we mean - as a falling short. Yours is a profoundly religious idea. It is bigger than all of us!

What about seeking and striving though? Are they still necessary do you think?

By "staging" we suppose you to mean something like "put on a platform in front of an audience" do you?

By the way we have just been listening to Martinu's Fourth Symphony. There are passages therein which sound quite like parts of S.'s peculiar productions. Who was influenced by whom?
« Last Edit: 09:39:59, 24-03-2007 by Sydney Grew » Logged
Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #43 on: 08:27:12, 24-03-2007 »

I've been rather too busy in the past few days to look in over here, but am delighted to see the Shostakovich thread resurface. Before the old board 'died' I did copy and paste Ron's thoughts on the first few symphonies and look forward to more when you have the time, Ron. I'd also be interested to hear your thoughts on that alternative Kondrashin recording of No.4!  Smiley

Bws,
Mark
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
Ron Dough
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« Reply #44 on: 08:52:23, 24-03-2007 »

Thanks are due here to Mr Grew for setting us back on track.

 Whether by design or accident, the Eighth might be seen as an astute choice, less eccentric than its immediate neighbours, more abstract than the later 'dated' and 'song cycle' symphonies with their self-evident narrative implications. It also happens to be particularly well blessed in its recorded legacy: as well as Kondrashin's recording, there are two by the other legend of Shostakovich conducting, Mravinksy, very readily available; they were both captured 'live' with his own Leningrad Philharmonic. The earlier is a BBC Legends release of a concert given at the Royal Festival Hall, 23 viii 1960 with one of the noisiest audiences over captured on tape: the later, a 1982 Leningrad reading, is now available on a super-budget reissue from Regis...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shostakovich-Symphony-No-8-Mozart/dp/B000026AP5/ref=sr_1_21/202-3084126-3939005?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1174725257&sr=1-21

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shostakovich-Symphony-No-8-Dmitry/dp/B000GPI27M/ref=pd_bowtega_1/202-3084126-3939005?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1174725257&sr=1-1

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