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SimonSagt!
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« Reply #75 on: 15:55:48, 20-07-2007 » |
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Here is the first page of Sorabji's 1919 First Piano Sonata. What do Members think of this as music? Are 7/8ths really natural? Is it all too much, and would they prefer a more regular rhythm? Is it affected rather than gifted? Or do they on the other hand find that it is inspired and works - does something - for them?
Esteemed Member Grew. I suggest that you place it next to one of Beethoven's. Then play them each once, one after the other. The answers to most of your questions will thus readily become apparent. bws S-S! |
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The Emperor suspected they were right. But he dared not stop and so on he walked, more proudly than ever. And his courtiers behind him held high the train... that wasn't there at all.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #76 on: 15:59:51, 20-07-2007 » |
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Which do you recommend, Simon? The Hammerklavier perhaps?  |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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autoharp
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« Reply #77 on: 16:07:37, 20-07-2007 » |
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Indeed.
Have yer clamour.
beer wine + spirits
Self-Service !
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martle
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« Reply #78 on: 16:09:11, 20-07-2007 » |
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Bearing in mind Simon thinks late Beethoven is an 'aberration' (IIRC), nothing post-op. 90 I would imagine.  |
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Green. Always green.
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Jonathan Powell
Posts: 40
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« Reply #79 on: 16:53:03, 20-07-2007 » |
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I am amused by the fact that someone finds the appearance of a bar in 7/8 unnatural amidst all the activity on this page. Is the number seven unnatural? Many flowers, for instance, have seven petals. There are ladybirds with seven spots, even! There is, as far as I know, lots of folk music that uses seven beats in a "bar" (such as that which inspired many pieces of Bartok and Vladigerov from Eastern Hungary and Bulgaria). Or is it not the number of quavers in this bar but the appearance of this bar in this context that this commentator is disturbed by? I quite like that bar, by the way, and feel it serves as an elegant and understated transition from the initial material to the stuff that comes at the bottom of the page. Also, I don't really think a comparison with a Beethoven sonata would be very useful here. It would, to my mind, be about as useful as comparing the Sorabji, or the Beethoven for that matter, to an artichoke. Perhaps comparing it to other single-movement piano sonatas from the early 20th century would be more instructive. Or perhaps that's just a bit obvious ...
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #80 on: 17:29:17, 20-07-2007 » |
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Bearing in mind Simon thinks late Beethoven is an 'aberration' (IIRC) Neither Debussy nor Ravel would probably have fundamentally disagreed, though they didn't have so much time for the earlier stuff of Beethoven either. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #81 on: 17:48:46, 20-07-2007 » |
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When S-S! contributes something to music which can stand up alongside L'Enfant et les sortilèges or Pelléas et Mélisande that argument might carry a bit more weight.
Even then it wouldn't tell you anything useful about Beethoven.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #82 on: 17:53:16, 20-07-2007 » |
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And who on this board, who has an opinion on anything, has written music on the level of either of those two works?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #83 on: 18:04:19, 20-07-2007 » |
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If they have, they're keeping jolly quiet about it (not that 'stand up alongside' necessarily means 'equal'...)
But the leap from S-S to CD and MR does have something of the non sequitur about it. Nothing to do with Sorabji of course.
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Chafing Dish
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« Reply #84 on: 18:09:34, 20-07-2007 » |
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But the leap from S-S to CD and MR does have something of the non sequitur about it. Nothing to do with Sorabji of course.
Thank you! Didn't realize I share initials with that fellow with the double forehead. Makes my day, certainly! |
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #85 on: 20:47:47, 20-07-2007 » |
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When S-S! contributes something to music which can stand up alongside L'Enfant et les sortilèges or Pelléas et Mélisande that argument might carry a bit more weight.
Even then it wouldn't tell you anything useful about Beethoven.
Not a quality judgement, by any chance??!  |
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autoharp
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« Reply #86 on: 20:50:35, 20-07-2007 » |
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But the leap from S-S to CD and MR does have something of the non sequitur about it. Nothing to do with Sorabji of course.
Thank you! Didn't realize I share initials with that fellow with the double forehead. Makes my day, certainly! Meanwhile, over on the Carl Davis thread . . . (sorry about that !) |
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #87 on: 21:55:58, 20-07-2007 » |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #88 on: 22:00:20, 20-07-2007 » |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #89 on: 22:12:59, 20-07-2007 » |
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I wonder if Sorabji ever shared a macaroon with Alan Bennett...
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