The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
06:53:58, 02-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
Author Topic: Bernard van Dieren  (Read 992 times)
autoharp
*****
Posts: 2778



« Reply #15 on: 14:13:21, 10-06-2007 »

I've listened to both the Chinese Symphony (1914) and the Spenser Sonnet (1921) a few times in the past three weeks with a view to figuring out if they're high quality original stuff or merely experimental works by a clever eccentric.

The Chinese Symphony is about 35' in 8 continuous movements. 5 vocal soloists, chorus and (not large) orchestra. Text from Chinese poems translated into German by Hans Bethge. Written at a time when Van Dieren's style/language was unsettled. Generally the work inhabits a twilight zone between tonality + atonality, but there is a mixture of styles on show, within as well as between movements - strangely enough, this isn't bothersome.
I imagine some would find a problem with the generally "aimless" quality - there is a distinct lack of drama and decisive cadences or resolution of any sort. There are many instances of unsubtle major 9th chords (the whole work ends on one), although not to the extent found in the early Elegy for cello + orchestra or the later more tonal songs. The 4th is much in evidence as a harmonic component, especially in the 6th movement - originally a song with piano entitled "Die Trennung". The counterpoint is incessant but the scoring is economical, transparent even. The instrumental writing seems well-judged (especially that of the strings, but also in passages involving solo horn or bass clarinet), but there is no attempt at colourful attraction, grandiose gestures and only a couple of biggish climaxes. No orientalism here ! Flutes are often low-pitched and harp-writing rather unlikely-looking, but neither seem to suffer. The choral writing is sometimes reminiscent of Delius and certain instrumental moments are surprisingly Ivesian. But there's little to link Van Dieren with Schoenberg beyond an untypically impassioned passage near the end of the second movement, and the "chamber-music scoring" associated with both composers seems no more than coincidence. There's nothing much Germanic about the music - but neither is there much echo of composers (such as Berlioz and Busoni) whose influence one could reasonably expect.

The performance I have is the one conducted by Myer Fredman in 1973. (Earlier performances were undertaken by Constant Lambert in 1935 + 1937 - and there was a Holland Festival performance in 1983). The solo voices were pretty ropey some of the time - they have little support regarding pitching from the accompanying instruments (unlike the chorus which does) and there's quite a bit of mispitching and defensive wobble. The vocal lines can sound contrived as a result and the rather opaque rhythm (often the old criticism) which in reality is less of a problem than is suggested by the score, is more pronounced when solo voices are present.

I've had a good time with this unusual and unique piece, rather better than with the Spenser Sonnet (on which I'll post later).

Logged
autoharp
*****
Posts: 2778



« Reply #16 on: 17:03:31, 10-06-2007 »

The Spenser Sonnet (or Sonetto VII of Spenser's Amoretti op 21 - tenor + 11 instruments - under 10 minutes) seems in many ways less engaging than the Chinese Symphony. Unfortunately the only version I've heard is one I did with students some years ago - the performance probably only scratched the surface.
Denis ApIvor's edited version provides a "piano" score underneath the instrumental score - useful because there are so many contradictions between the two (and many inaccurate accidentals) which have to be sorted out by any potential performer. The language is far more tonal than the symphony, if chromatic, and the counterpoint is rather more fussy. The original instruments include a cornet and a basset-horn (ApIvor substites alto clarinet) - the others are flute, clarinet, bassoon, horn, 2 violins, 2 violas + double bass. The nature of the writing gives an impression of far more than 11 instrumentalists and consistently employs doublings which change frequently between lines - a kind of dislocated colour-counterpoint owing nothing to Klangfarbenmelodie. This exploration of colour, which on the page looks appetising, didn't  communicate in my performance. However, ApIvor, writing about, Lambert's 1937 premiere, notes the "musical effect of glowing colours like stained glass" - so I must have seriously missed the boat . . .
Logged
increpatio
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2544


‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮


« Reply #17 on: 22:19:47, 30-06-2007 »

I finally got van Dieren's book in the post last week, just stayed in bed reading it this morning; I have to say that I find him to be a much less endearing writer than Sorabji so far, having finished his lengthy essay on Busoni.  I was barely able to stomach his fawning adoration for that long; his writing style in general I  don't like that much (in much the same way I can't stick de Quincy).  I actually feel a bit ill now just thinking about it.  Uch.  Hoping the rest of it'll be a bit better.
Logged

‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮
autoharp
*****
Posts: 2778



« Reply #18 on: 11:12:28, 14-08-2007 »

The subject of van Dieren's 1st string quartet came up on another thread. It's a complex, mostly atonal and bizarre work dating from 1912 and plays continuously for 35 minutes or so. It's based around certain Paganini Caprices (nos 4,5,7 + 12). In the words of Denis ApIvor - "In this work the composer seems to be inviting comparison between the formal thematicism and virtuosity of the Paganini Caprices (Op. 1), and the new atonal athematicism and contrapuntal style which he plunges into in the first bar and maintains, between the Paganini-derived episodes and cadenzas, for the rest of the work".

ApIvor made a performing version and the Gabrieli Quartet gave the first performance in 1965. Or was it ? There are suggestions amongst writings on van Dieren that there was a performance in 1912 in Berlin. (Alastair asked for the references). This seems unlikely given not only ApIvor's description above, but also that the original score contained no bar-lines. ApIvor himself states that it "appears to have been without public performance during his lifetime" (BVD: Search and rescue one hundred years on. The Music Review vol 47 no. 4). Patrick Riley, an expert on the quartets, mentions that it "was so rarely performed in van Dieren's lifetime" (English eccentric or musical genius. British Music Society vol 8, 1986). Leslie East, in a colloquium at Kings College, London 28/11/73 notes that it was "Said to have been played once in Berlin but unable to confirm this from documentary sources". The most certain is L. Henderson Williams ("Philandering around" Mr. Van Dieren's Quartets - The Sackbut - July 1931) who states that it "was played once in Berlin 1912" and "God reward those who introduced it in Berlin in 1912". Williams borrowed scores of all the quartets from the composer: one might reasonably assume therefore that van Dieren told him of this performance. Strange, though, that Cecil Gray (van Dieren's most enthusiastic supporter at the time) never seems to mention it. Perhaps the work simply had a read-through ?
Logged
ahinton
*****
Posts: 1543


WWW
« Reply #19 on: 12:03:29, 14-08-2007 »

The subject of van Dieren's 1st string quartet came up on another thread. It's a complex, mostly atonal and bizarre work dating from 1912 and plays continuously for 35 minutes or so. It's based around certain Paganini Caprices (nos 4,5,7 + 12). In the words of Denis ApIvor - "In this work the composer seems to be inviting comparison between the formal thematicism and virtuosity of the Paganini Caprices (Op. 1), and the new atonal athematicism and contrapuntal style which he plunges into in the first bar and maintains, between the Paganini-derived episodes and cadenzas, for the rest of the work".

ApIvor made a performing version and the Gabrieli Quartet gave the first performance in 1965. Or was it ? There are suggestions amongst writings on van Dieren that there was a performance in 1912 in Berlin. (Alastair asked for the references). This seems unlikely given not only ApIvor's description above, but also that the original score contained no bar-lines. ApIvor himself states that it "appears to have been without public performance during his lifetime" (BVD: Search and rescue one hundred years on. The Music Review vol 47 no. 4). Patrick Riley, an expert on the quartets, mentions that it "was so rarely performed in van Dieren's lifetime" (English eccentric or musical genius. British Music Society vol 8, 1986). Leslie East, in a colloquium at Kings College, London 28/11/73 notes that it was "Said to have been played once in Berlin but unable to confirm this from documentary sources". The most certain is L. Henderson Williams ("Philandering around" Mr. Van Dieren's Quartets - The Sackbut - July 1931) who states that it "was played once in Berlin 1912" and "God reward those who introduced it in Berlin in 1912". Williams borrowed scores of all the quartets from the composer: one might reasonably assume therefore that van Dieren told him of this performance. Strange, though, that Cecil Gray (van Dieren's most enthusiastic supporter at the time) never seems to mention it. Perhaps the work simply had a read-through ?
This is all very interesting. According to my best recollections of a conversation about it with Keith Harvey, the cellist of the Gabrieli Quartet, their initial encounter with the work came a few years after 1965 and, although there was to have been a performance of it, this never happened and, to the best of Mr Harvey's recollection, the only airing of this work that ever took place was their recording for broadcast on BBC.

As to the possibility of a performance around the time of the quartet's composition or at some later date well before the time when the Gabrielis became involved, there really ought to be some evidence of parts having been prepared, so it seems all the more doubtful in view of the lack of any such evidence.

Best,

Alistair
Logged
autoharp
*****
Posts: 2778



« Reply #20 on: 13:00:10, 14-08-2007 »

Yes, I was wrong about 1965. I quoted the date from Patrick Riley's article, which although interesting seems to contain several errors! Here's his paragraph on the 1st quartet.

"It is ironic that the 1st quartet, which I think is the best of the six, was so rarely performed in van Dieren's lifetime, and so completely misunderstood. I have no doubt that it is the most perfect of the six. It has the greatest stylistic unity and produces the best effect. Modern performers seem to agree with this opinion. The Quartet was recorded by the Gabrieli Quartet in 1978 and was heard several times on the BBC between 1965 and the present." [1986]

ApIvor's performing edition dates from 1975. I thought the BBC broadcast was about 1976 (?). Stylistic disunity in this quartet was undoubtedly intended by the composer. Back to Williams - "One smiles at the score, so oddly does an ultra-modern garment drape the magic fiddler's bones; so startingly does the scrap of diatonicism intrude amidst the revolutionary idiom". Later he notes, rather puzzlingly - "Deterrently difficult to play, but not so difficult to read as its successor". Presumably he's referring to the 2nd Quartet which was performed in London in 1920 and Donaueschingen in 1922 (Hindemith was the violist in the 2nd performance) but not published until 1928.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to: