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richard barrett
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« Reply #195 on: 23:04:28, 05-05-2007 » |
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(Er, is this also the piece with the gunshot and Bartered Bride in it I believe so, yes, though it's a while since I heard it too. Aren't they bass clarinets, not saxophones? Look at the worklist, Richard. IM JANUAR AM NIL (1981-84) für 2 Sopransaxophone (eins davon auch Klarinette und Baßklarinette), Schlagzeug, Klavier, 4 Violinen, 2 Violoncelli und Kontrabaß Thanks Veronika. |
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« Last Edit: 23:08:06, 05-05-2007 by richard barrett »
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time_is_now
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« Reply #196 on: 23:08:53, 05-05-2007 » |
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t_i_n, doesn't it actually move backwards through the history of music? Erm, not obviously. I meant 'moving forwards' more in the sense of cutting quickly from one kind of material to another, rather than implying any strict chronological progression through epochs, but it certainly didn't seem to go backwards. There was certainly a gunshot. And there was some high 'folky' clarinet stuff that may well have been quoting The Bartered Bride, but I don't know that piece so I can only guess. Richard, no, definitely saxophones, though with some clarinet doubling (and not all bass, some of it's very high indeed). (Sorry Veronika, hadn't seen you there.) |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #197 on: 23:50:42, 05-05-2007 » |
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it certainly didn't seem to go backwards. Hm. It seemed to go backwards when I heard it... Er, yes, anyway. Orchestra?  |
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quartertone
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« Reply #198 on: 23:54:05, 05-05-2007 » |
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not because I have any hope or ambition to make the orchestra really sound like a tractor shoveling mud or a glass recycling bin being emptied into a dump truck Why not? I certainly haven't come across any convincing application of that technique. Well, as someone who sees tractors going about their business on a daily basis, I can't discern all that much potential down that road myself... |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #199 on: 00:01:10, 06-05-2007 » |
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Oh yes, orchestra. Well, if more composers wrote pieces that did with the orchestra what Im Januar am Nil does with a few strings, a piano and a couple of saxophones, I'd be happy.  Actually, just to pursue my 'spectral' theme of the evening and think a bit about what I like so much in pieces by Vivier like Lonely Child and Bouchara, most of which are for chamber orchestra - or what we'd nowadays call a 'Sinfonietta' line-up ... Well, calling it a 'Sinfonietta' (or BCMG, or EM, or whatever) line-up makes it sound pretty standardised and boring, whereas what Vivier (and Grisey, and a couple of the younger composers who interest me most) manage to do by means of harmonic and timbral illusionism is to make it sound much bigger, almost like an orchestra. I'm not suggesting composers therefore don't need to write for orchestra, but given that it's possible to make 14 players sound like an orchestra, it would be nice if composers more often thought about making orchestras sound like something different yet again. __________ I believe I get 5 stars for this post.  |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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quartertone
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« Reply #200 on: 00:08:02, 06-05-2007 » |
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given that it's possible to make 14 players sound like an orchestra, it would be nice if composers more often thought about making orchestras sound like something different yet again. I get 5 stars for this post. Indeed - imagine treating 100 players as a quartet subjected to 25-dimensional concatenation.  Maybe I'll try that if I ever get the chance. |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #201 on: 00:09:59, 06-05-2007 » |
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If I had some money and an orchestra I'd commission you, q-t!
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #202 on: 00:11:47, 06-05-2007 » |
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I believe I get 5 stars for this post. Welcome to the illustrious 5-star club, t_i_n. I'm afraid it's diminishing returns from here on in. A bit like adding polyphonic lines once you've passed 20, you might say. (Lines, not years. ) |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #203 on: 00:12:41, 06-05-2007 » |
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If I had some money and an orchestra I'd commission you, q-t!
This could be a marriage made in heaven..... (quick, someone come up with a generous endowment - if that's in place I'm sure the orchestra can be sorted out somehow.....) |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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quartertone
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« Reply #204 on: 00:16:20, 06-05-2007 » |
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If I had some money and an orchestra I'd commission you, q-t!
This could be a marriage made in heaven..... Not a patch on the love-child of Tippett and Stockhausen though...  |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #205 on: 00:17:53, 06-05-2007 » |
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I notice our venerable moderator is just two posts away from hitting four figures, also (to become the fourth person to do so)! A, martle, roslynmuse, Il Grande Inquisitor, Morticia, Lord Byron and Richard are all coming up from the rear....
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #206 on: 00:19:00, 06-05-2007 » |
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If I had some money and an orchestra I'd commission you, q-t!
This could be a marriage made in heaven..... Not a patch on the love-child of Tippett and Stockhausen though... I have a horrible thought about what that might produce, if we take New Year as a starting point..... |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Chafing Dish
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« Reply #207 on: 04:02:23, 22-05-2007 » |
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given that it's possible to make 14 players sound like an orchestra, it would be nice if composers more often thought about making orchestras sound like something different yet again. I get 5 stars for this post. Indeed - imagine treating 100 players as a quartet subjected to 25-dimensional concatenation. Maybe I'll try that if I ever get the chance. What is a 25-dimensional concatenation? Is that classified knowledge? |
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stuart macrae
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« Reply #208 on: 01:26:20, 24-07-2007 » |
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In light of the discussion relating to rehearsal time for Sam Hayden's new piece ( http://r3ok.myforum365.com/index.php?topic=1255.45) I wondered to what extent people thought a composer ought to take this factor into account when writing an orchestral piece? In other words, considering the following: a) a 20-25 minute piece is likely to have only about 6 hours of rehearsal before the premiereb) the vast majority of orchestral pieces are not performed again until years after the premiere, even when they are well-received at the time - begging the question of whether the piece is written more for the premiere, or with the hope of an ideal performance some time in the future (not necessarily mutually exclusive, of course...)and weighing against them the fact that c) the composer may not get the chance to write another orchestral piece for a long timeand acknowledging that d) some ideas just can't be made simple to performshould a composer try to write a piece that he/she thinks can be adequately prepared in 6 hours, even if that means using simpler means than would be used for smaller-scale pieces? Or should the piece be written with the ideal performance in mind, regardless of whether that is probable given a restrictive rehearsal schedule? and yes, I am writing one myself...  (...and would therefore much appreciate any advice or opinions...) |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #209 on: 02:10:03, 24-07-2007 » |
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Without in any sense wanting to negate the importance of Stuart's points, I wondered if anyone could give information on how the conditions for a new orchestral work outside of the UK compare?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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