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Author Topic: DAB is dead... as DAB+ is to arrive !  (Read 618 times)
Lord Byron
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« on: 20:58:20, 08-02-2007 »

http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/articles/All-DAB-receivers-will-be-obsolete-in-a-few-years-time.php

ooooo
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go for a walk with the ramblers http://www.ramblers.org.uk/
Bryn
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« Reply #1 on: 21:21:10, 08-02-2007 »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F2620064?thread=3867398

Be wary of Steve/Digitalradiotech he knows a fair old bit, but tends to shoot from the hip, and his aim is often poor, even if firing from the prone position. No matter how wrong he is on a given subject, he can never accept it. His learning appears to be entirely book based. It would seem he had a relevant masters degree in his chosen field of electronic engineering, but has never actually used his knowledge in gainful employment.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #2 on: 22:54:45, 08-02-2007 »

Don't mince your words Bryn, tell us what you think.  Wink
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Bryn
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« Reply #3 on: 23:09:35, 08-02-2007 »

In all seriousness, Ollie, that's about it. He does talk a fair bit of sense re. the way DAB has been implemented and messed around with by the BBC and other broadcasters, but he tends to go OTT and attacks anyone who has actual real experience of working in radio in general, and DAB on particular. just take a look at his recent lengthy tirade against a French correspondent who works on a day to day basis with DAB. He seems to be his own argument's worse enemy.
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dave2010
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« Reply #4 on: 00:14:40, 18-02-2007 »

I don't see how DAB can be replaced in the UK. In other countries (France, Germany?) there may be some chance of moving towards the so-called DAB+ which will exploit aac+ and AAC as well as be DAB compatible. This will cause manufacturers to manufacture sets, and they may well be available here too. This won't do much good though, unless some of the commercial stations start to adopt it, as the BBC has hardly any wiggle room with available spectrum, and with Ofcom refusing to allow any more spectrum to the BBC, there's not much they can do in the next year or two to promote DAB+, as they will have to continue to support DAB, and running DAB/DAB+ in parallel would consume even more spectrum - which they don't have. Over a few years things could change, but it'd be very tricky to mount a cut over to the new systems, given the constraints in the UK. We have heard of trials in this country, but that's not the same as a new service.
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Bryn
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« Reply #5 on: 00:43:21, 18-02-2007 »

dave, as suggested on the BBC's boards, the response given in Radio Times, is highly equivocal. THey simply asserted that a wide variety of BBC channels would remain avaiulble using the currrent mp2 codec. They said nothing about audio quality of bitrates, I can well see them introducing AAC in the not tha distant future, in tandem with a reduced bitrate mp2 service. Once enough of those still stuck with mp2 only devices got so fed up withthe dire quality that they junked them, the changeover could be completed. After all Radio 3 in mono at 48kbps mp2 would still fir their assertion of compatibility.
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dave2010
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« Reply #6 on: 10:00:08, 18-02-2007 »

dave, as suggested on the BBC's boards, the response given in Radio Times, is highly equivocal. THey simply asserted that a wide variety of BBC channels would remain avaiulble using the currrent mp2 codec. They said nothing about audio quality of bitrates, I can well see them introducing AAC in the not tha distant future, in tandem with a reduced bitrate mp2 service.

Bryn

My readings of what they have said, and also what Ofcom have said, suggest that in the short term a move to DAB+ is unlikely, but I can always be wrong. As you say, there are strategies which may work to get a transfer to something like DAB+, but with limited spectrum available this would be difficult, and I'm not sure that they really would want to reduce the DAB bit rate too far during the process, as this could be considered intolerable. However, my suspicion is that quite of lot of the output of the BBC would work quite well on aac+ at around 40 kbps stereo, so assuming we have about 8-10 stations (R1,R2,R3,R4, R5, 5Extra, World Service, London, Asian -are there any more?Miss R6 and R7 first time round!!!) that'd "only" need about 320 kbps spare. It's not much, but when they have little space to play with, it would be tricky. Also, I personally don't think that aac+ at 40 kbps is good enough for R3, though the BBC may disagree and thousands of non complaining listeners might not notice. They could even go down to 32 kbps - for 256 kbps on 8 stations. It's arguably no worse than moderate quality FM.

I think there'd be a riot if they simply killed a few stations during a change-over, without an alternative form for reception. In my opinon they could probably lose World Service for a while, but if a channel like the Asian service went, even for a short time, there'd probably be cries of discrimination. Most of the channels could probably have a few kbps shaved off - R1-32 off, R2 32 off, R3 32 off, R4 32 off, lose World Service for a while - save 64, London, 32 off, R7 16 off - that's around 240 kbps - nearly enough to put on the low quality aac+ service in the transition period. They could also put out some of the aac+ channels in mono to start with, then switch over to stereo later, and switch the conventional DAB channels to mono at the same time. That'd give two parallel transmissions of most of the BBC output, but most would be in relatively poor quality sound. How long could such a transition last? 2-4 years maybe - perhaps longer! Will the audiences tolerate that?

Once they'd got a change-over under way, they could then kill off some/all of the MP2 channels, and if they were feeling kind they could then upgrade to AAC at (say) 128 kps for R3 - and at 96kbps for most of the rest - though I note that some listeners to R1,R2 and even R4 might say that the stations should all have the same quality. I also have reservations that 128 kbps AAC is really good enough for high quality sound, though arguably it's no worse than we have now.

I have no idea whether Ofcom would be receptive to allocating more spectrum on a short term basis in order to allow a change-over to take place more smoothly, though so far I'm not convinced that they would, or even that they've really thought much about it. As I said earlier, I have a feeling that things are a bit easier in some other countries to facilitate a switch.

In addition the BBC would also have to do some PR work to downplay the "success" of digital DAB (if it's so good, why "upgrade" it?) to get people to buy the new equipment. They might prefer to let commercial broadcasters spearhead the way forward, though I can't see any reason why the commercial broadcasters would be interested in doing that anyway, as they have little interest in quality, and my understanding is that Ofcom has been kinder to them as a group in terms of spectrum allocation.

Problems ahead I think.
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