spatny
Posts: 56
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« on: 08:18:54, 05-04-2008 » |
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Hi,
I am in the process of upgrading my hi fi system. I am interested in upgrading my speakers ( currently B&W 804s ) Can anyone suggest a short list of speakers and/or speaker cable? I find this Hi-fi world very confusing, with dealers only interested in recommending their stock and have no clue about the needs for classical music. I also have a Sugden Masterclass IA- 4 amplifier. I really want a great stereo image, with plenty of detail ( just like a real concert )
Many thanks
Peter
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #1 on: 09:17:17, 05-04-2008 » |
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Peter/Spatny,
Hi. Just as a preamble, I should mention that I have been associated with the Hi-Fi industry for many years, first in retail, and more recently as a consultant for a couple of the smaller independent high-end manufacturers, though those connections are at present dormant.
Speaker recommendation is a very difficult job to perform at a distance, because choices are so personal. My immediate question is whether you've just not found the right dealer yet, since there are still some about for whom music is the be-all and end-all, and it's one of those you need. At the higher ends of Hi-Fi, choosing the right equipment is like choosing a partner: there's got to be a spark there which lets you know that you're making the right choice for you, and nobody else's recommendations can ever do more than point you in the right direction.
I'll be out and about today, so you may not get immediate response, but, as a start, could you please answer the following questions for me?
Apart from the Suggy, what else are you using at present - CD player, etc?
What size room do you listen in, and is the layout fairly flexible, or do you have to worK around living-space requirements?
What's your approximate budget?
Whereabouts are you based?
Cheers,
Ron
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spatny
Posts: 56
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« Reply #2 on: 19:34:20, 05-04-2008 » |
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hi Ron,
Thanks for your reply. My CD player is an Audio Flight CD ONE. I also Cyrus DAB 8.0 Tuner. My room is around 6m x 11m, but my listening position is not very flexible. I current sit about 5m away from my speakers. I really don't have a budget, but willing to pay around £6000 for the right speakers. I do love the BW speakers, but I feel I am missing detail. I want to hear everything I hear at a concert. Maybe I am asking too much. I am based in Kent.
Best regards
Peter
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #3 on: 20:13:13, 05-04-2008 » |
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OK, Peter, a couple of observations:
The B & W range are often used as monitors by recording engineers precisely for their ability to reveal an overall picture with great clarity: they tend to be speakers which draw attention to what they're playing, rather than to themselves. Anything with 'greater detail' will probably achieve it at the expense of a toppier sound - impressive at first, but often tiring before very long: the temptation of the new and exciting is all very well, but all too often it ends with a wish to return to the more comfortable state that pertained before!
It's very rare that a recording can ever reproduce even what goes into the mixing desk at the studio: even the best engineers in the world are hard pressed to achieve such miracles: on the occasions I've been in a recording studio, I've always been frustrated at how far the sound from the monitors is from what happened 'live', so it's probably worth remembering that what's disappointing you about your system may actually stem from the recordings and broadcasts rather than the system itself.
Cables, however, are one area where it might be worth playing around a little, though ahead of that there are some more basic questions which will almost certainly help me to help you.
(i) What is your equipment standing on at present?
(ii) How is each unit connected to the mains? Does each item have dedicated socket, or are you sharing adaptors?
(iii) How often do you break, clean, and remake connections?
(iv) How heavily is the room furnished? What are the walls made of, and with what are they covered? What's on the floor? What's the ceiling height? How many windows are there, and what size are they?
(v) What are you using for cable at the moment, (audio and speaker)?
Cheers,
Ron
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spatny
Posts: 56
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« Reply #4 on: 10:10:57, 06-04-2008 » |
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Hi Ron,
I have my present equipment on a standard TV/audio racking system. I have to admit, its not pretty compared with what is available.
I have a 8 way 'audio grade' mains strip and have 2 Clear Audio 'audio grade' power cables for the CD and amplifier.
To be honest, I haven't done any connecting cleaning.
My room is in a modern house. It has painted walls and carpeted with usual sofas, coffee tables etc. I have a large 'bookcase' that holds my CD collection. There is one large window, 2 smaller windows and a patio sliding door. the room is about 3.5m high.
I have some Chord epic speaker cables, but have recently tried many different speaker cables without much success. My dealers all point to the speakers as the weakness in the system. I feel they have no experience of classical music, to advise me better. This is why I would love a short list of well known 'classical music friendly' speakers, so I can start demonstrating.
I know what you are saving about CD recordings, although some recordings in the past few years seem very good. I listen to live and recorded concerts on FM. The potential sound is far better, although I have a FM reception problem with hiss and a slight high pitch whine - but thats another story.
Many thanks again
Peter
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gradus
Posts: 58
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« Reply #5 on: 10:20:41, 06-04-2008 » |
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Given your room size, I would try to audition a pair of Quad's latest electrostatics. They come in two sizes and I think the larger gets even better reviews although both are widely acclaimed.
If you can't get a dealer to demo the Quads, it is possible to make an appointment at the Quad factory, just outside Huntingdon and they will let you come along and play discs to your heart's content. I spent an hour or so listening to the new speakers when I went to collect a repaired ESL 63 a year or so back and was mightily impressed.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #6 on: 11:00:51, 06-04-2008 » |
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They're the obvious place to start if you're going to change speakers, though I still feel that we need to concentrate on the rest of the system first. The standard TV/audio racking system.... Would that be bog-standard? High-grade audio equipment benefits greatly from dedicated shelving, so if you've not investigated that, I'd certainly look at that possibility first. The CD player and amplifier would also be helped by having dedicated mains sockets rather than sharing a strip, and although you mention 'audio-grade' power cables, you don't mention what you're using as interconnect cables: that's another area where the right choice can make a huge difference.
The bigger and 'Higher'Fi' a system is, the more essential (and difficult) it is to get in 'on song'. I've come across plenty of cases where people have spent large amounts upgrading yet felt that they ended up getting less pleasure from their system; sometimes it was due to badly matched components, but more often than not it was lack of system tuning and maintenance which was the main culprit.
I'm not convinced you've found the right dealers: if you're spending that sort of money, then travelling further to find someone who does understand is hardly an issue, I would have thought: even in the late seventies and eighties we had regular customers who would bypass several other dealers en route because our ethos and musical tastes appealed, and it's obvious that if you can't trust those you've dealt with so far, then you need to go farther still until you find one you can. A visit to a high-end show would make sense, too, in helping you to narrow the field of what might be worth considering. Although I'm now 500 miles north of the town in which I spent so much time in the business, I'm lucky in having a dealer not that far away who still specialises in high-end gear, and I have the odd visit to catch up on what's new. The recent Quads are wonderful, but so are the B & Ws in their own way: I'd be very happy with either, though I'm aware that different ancilliary equipment and just how well-tuned the system was overall might sway my feelings one way or the other.
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spatny
Posts: 56
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« Reply #7 on: 20:48:56, 06-04-2008 » |
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Hi Ron,
You are right, my rack is bog standard. Will it really make a difference? I have some chord interconnects, but haven't tried any others. The dedicated power sockets may be a problem, as I only have a single mains socket in that location of my room. I could change that for a double socket, if you think it would make the difference. The strip could be on one socket and say the DC player on the other.
Many thanks again
Peter
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #8 on: 22:26:18, 06-04-2008 » |
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Hi-Fi supports play a vitally important role in allowing equipment to perform to its best: they need to be as light and as rigid as possible, with a very high resonant frequency. I've been trying to access the Mana website this evening: of all the stand manufacturers they probably have the highest reputation: not cheap but staggeringly good. I'm hoping that they're still around, otherwise, we'll have to look elsewhere.
Interconnect cables are a very personal thing: I was lucky in being able to try high-end cables from distributors sometimes even before they were released, and within my own system found eventually that the van den Hul range worked best, particularly the rather pricey carbon-fibre cable: friends and colleagues had different preferences: some love the sound of silver cable: to me it has a rather 'shouty' quality which makes orchestral strings in particular very unnatural and unpleasant: carbon has a warmer, 'woodier' quality which I find much more 'real'.
Ideally you need to find a dealer who has demo sets of cables which he will lend out (with a covering deposit) over a weekend, but that's still a couple of stages down the road: it's worth sorting your mains and your stand ahead of that. If you can give the CD a separate socket, it will help.
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spatny
Posts: 56
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« Reply #9 on: 17:57:11, 15-04-2008 » |
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Hi Ron,
Here is an update. I managed to borrow a Hi Fi racking system from my dealer, and I have to say the sound difference is astonishing!! I am up until 3am playing all my favourite CDs. I really can believe it. So this is where I am spending my money next. Thanks again for tips. I very much appreciated.
Best Regards
Peter
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #10 on: 18:17:51, 15-04-2008 » |
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Peter,
Excellent! That's precisely the result I expected: we used to call it a 'Linn" night in the seventies and early eighties, because it used to happen to vinyl junkies the first day they took possession of one of those incredible turntables, as indeed it happened to me. That 'oh, just one more record before I go to bed' several times in succession is the surest of signs that a system is doing its job. And I'll happily bet that during all that time, all you actually focussed on was the music itself - the system had become immaterial.
Happy to be of help,
Ron
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