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Author Topic: Totally reliable form of backup - is there such a thing?  (Read 414 times)
ariosto
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« on: 10:56:43, 24-04-2008 »

I have some audio material which cost a lot in studio time and money to record.

At present it resides on DVD, and CD, and also on at least two hard drives, where it has mostly been edited.

Is there a foolproof way that this can be archived - bearing in mind that DVD's and CD's (+ - R's) are not safe over time, and hard drives can fail?

Any comments would be gratefully recieved.

Thanks.

Ariosto

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Ariosto
Ron Dough
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« Reply #1 on: 11:10:34, 24-04-2008 »

In a word, no, ariosto. Sad

However, if it's on DVD and CD (and hopefully duplicated or even triplicated onto media from different sources - they're very unlikely to fail simultaneously) then regular backup to new media will ensure that even if the originals fail, you've still got pristine copies.

(Hope they're not all being kept in the same location, by the way.... Perhaps remote online backup would offer buttons as well as belt and braces.)

Ron
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Bryn
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« Reply #2 on: 11:15:39, 24-04-2008 »

I have some audio material which cost a lot in studio time and money to record.

At present it resides on DVD, and CD, and also on at least two hard drives, where it has mostly been edited.

Is there a foolproof way that this can be archived - bearing in mind that DVD's and CD's (+ - R's) are not safe over time, and hard drives can fail?

Any comments would be gratefully recieved.

Thanks.

Ariosto



I would think the old back-up routine of three cycling copies on each of what media you have available would be your best insurance. I am not sure how long SDHC cards can hold their data reliably, but they are another option to consider.
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ariosto
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« Reply #3 on: 11:21:39, 24-04-2008 »

Bryn and Ron

Thanks for your quick responses - and good advice. I did keep a hard disk backup somewhere else for a while - whilst I was abroad. But yes, I should try and put another copy somewhere else - maybe with my daughter. In fact this recording will probably not see the light of day as a proper CD, as we are arguing a lot about whether it is really any good! SDHC cards I will investigate.

Regards
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Ariosto
IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #4 on: 11:27:48, 24-04-2008 »

Backing up to an independent on-line storage provider who offers data mirroring, geographically-distributed servers, server redundancy, and keeps secure off-line backups of its servers should be a cast iron approach, although cost might be an issue if you have a large amount of data.

But even then, service providers can go out of business so it's still not perfect...

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Allegro, ma non tanto
ariosto
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« Reply #5 on: 11:44:30, 24-04-2008 »

Thanks IRF for your thoughts - points noted. I was wondering about cost, as there are many GB's of data - from memory probably about 15 GB, and off line independent storage might be costly over a long period.

Regards
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Ariosto
Ron Dough
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« Reply #6 on: 12:32:37, 24-04-2008 »

Brand new, but maybe worth considering, the Solid State Drives from Crucial, plenty of space, no mechanics:


http://www.crucial.com/promo/index.aspx?prog=ssd


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ariosto
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« Reply #7 on: 13:30:21, 24-04-2008 »

Interesting option, Ron. Must find out the price.
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Ariosto
David_Underdown
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« Reply #8 on: 16:16:46, 28-04-2008 »

speaking with my work hat on for a moment, there is also the redundancy of file formats to be considered, you may like to look around http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/preservation/digital.htm which has tools for identifying file formats (and in future this will be extended to providing information on the risk specific file formats are at, and migration pathways to lower risk formats) and information on things to consider with different storage media.
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David
ariosto
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« Reply #9 on: 16:49:03, 28-04-2008 »

David_Underdown

David

Thanks - I've had a look. More things to worry about!! (I think they are a little out of date - info from 2003) But very useful points which are always valid.

Just as an offshoot, I've been archiving some old recordings I made on reel to reel machines from as early as 1971 and some of the tapes are OK. Difficult to know if the acceptable transfers I've "digitalatised" (right word/spelling?) just now, are as good as when I made them, I doubt it. Some tapes were giving problems such as gumming up heads and guides- whereas others worked very well. Some makes better than others.

Even the BBC are interested in one of these - an old radio recording of about 1972 - a documentary on the sinking of the French Fleet in 1940. Most of the others are personal recordings of friends etc., doing concerts and making demo tapes.
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Ariosto
Ron Dough
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« Reply #10 on: 17:25:19, 28-04-2008 »

Some makes better than others, ariosto? Very much so; even the major record companies have had major problems with some analogue master tapes. There was whole run of Ampex which almost disintegrated with time, and needed to be returned to the manufacturer to be slow baked in order to seal the coating to the backing long enough to enable the priceless material thereon to be duplicated. It's normal to store two-track master tapes on which the recording runs only in one direction 'tail out' (i.e. with the end of the tape on the outside of the reel) so that the whole thing is wound before playing: and I'd normally give any tape just out of storage three or four rewinds before playing it, whether reel, cassette or video. Scotch could be nasty in this respect, too, and I have some Agfa reel tape which clogs the heads up horrendously, entailing stopping and cleaning every five minutes or so - digital editing's an absolute godsend at this point, though I do miss the hands-on artistry of a jointing-block and razor blade.
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ariosto
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« Reply #11 on: 18:55:51, 28-04-2008 »


Some makes better than others, ariosto? Very much so; even the major record companies have had major problems with some analogue master tapes. There was whole run of Ampex which almost disintegrated with time, and needed to be returned to the manufacturer to be slow baked in order to seal the coating to the backing long enough to enable the priceless material thereon to be duplicated. It's normal to store two-track master tapes on which the recording runs only in one direction 'tail out' (i.e. with the end of the tape on the outside of the reel) so that the whole thing is wound before playing: and I'd normally give any tape just out of storage three or four rewinds before playing it, whether reel, cassette or video. Scotch could be nasty in this respect, too, and I have some Agfa reel tape which clogs the heads up horrendously, entailing stopping and cleaning every five minutes or so - digital editing's an absolute godsend at this point, though I do miss the hands-on artistry of a jointing-block and razor blade.

Ron

I have to say that I used to enjoy cutting and splicing! I was pleased that none of my edits had fallen apart. Yes, I had the same thing with the Agfa reels, a terrible problem with gumming up and even sticking when the tape was stationary, on my Revox B77.  I did store the tapes so they had to be re-wound first. Strangely enough some of the Ampex tapes were OK - as were odd ones like Sony - even though some 30 years old. At least I'm relieved that I have now transferred most of them, and a lot of the sound is pretty good.
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Ariosto
David_Underdown
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« Reply #12 on: 19:13:15, 28-04-2008 »

David

Thanks - I've had a look. More things to worry about!! (I think they are a little out of date - info from 2003) But very useful points which are always valid.

I believe that there are updates in the pipeline, it's very much a live issue.  The classic example in this field is the Domesday book, the original is still readable (provided you understand clerk's latin), and we know fairly well how to looks after the physical media which make it up.  However, you may remember the project the BBC did for the 900th anniversary, all the data was released on a coulpe of laser discs, and pushed the BBC B micro to its limits.  Now just over 20 years on, all the hardware is museum pieces, and the data was only recovered by the skin of the teeth (there is now a PC emulator which can reproduce it all).
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David
David_Underdown
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« Reply #13 on: 17:47:22, 08-05-2008 »

A related Q&A in teh Guardian's technology section today http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/may/08/3
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David
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