perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #15 on: 13:24:45, 28-06-2008 » |
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The bassoon player almost has a coronary!
... joining his colleagues from the horn section in the cardiac unit. Zelenka's stratospheric virtuoso horn writing can be astonishing.
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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Philidor
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« Reply #16 on: 13:50:16, 28-06-2008 » |
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Zelenka was apparently a rather bitter man. I've heard that too, but have never been able to source it. So little is known of his personal life - not even a picture - so I don't see how a scholar could back the claim. He was a Catholic in Lutheran Europe - enough to make anyone slightly nervous, but 'bitter?' I belong to a specialist Zelenka group, so will ask a Zelenka professor and report back.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #17 on: 14:13:37, 28-06-2008 » |
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He was a Catholic in Lutheran Europe Although the court of Dresden, where he worked, was indeed Catholic (see for example the several rather beautiful Mass settings by J.D.Heinichen). I think, though I don't have chapter and verse to hand, that the "bitterness" is inferred rather than documented, from the fact that JDZ was repeatedly passed over for promotion; there are also some contemporary accounts of performances of his music which describe it in less than glowing terms. He seems also to have been less than confident about his own abilities as a composer, as could be inferred from his studies somewhat late in life with Fux and the existence of several alternative movements in his instrumental works in case the original, if I recall correctly, be considered too "coarse". Indeed his contrapuntal writing, while often intricate and original, frequently crosses the boundaries of what would have been considered good taste, eg. the closing bars of the French overture in the Ouverture a 7, which would have been frowned at in any counterpoint class then or now. There still isn't a really recommendable recording of all of his orchestral music, I think: the Camerata Bern one is beautifully played but somewhat harshly recorded and on modern instruments, while the more recent one on cpo by "Das Neu-Eröffnete Orchestre" shows how natural horn playing has improved in the interim (I don't think those parts could have been played on unvalved instruments in the 1970s) and has its highlights, but is otherwise IMO a little lacking in bite and energy, and often seems to be trying to sweep some of the more "eccentric" moments in the music under the carpet so to speak. As for the trio sonatas, the set by Ensemble Zefiro is I think the one to go for. Who are the performers on the one you posted, Philidor?
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« Last Edit: 14:42:18, 28-06-2008 by richard barrett »
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Philidor
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« Reply #18 on: 15:13:59, 28-06-2008 » |
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He was a Catholic in Lutheran Europe Although the court of Dresden, where he worked, was indeed Catholic (see for example the several rather beautiful Mass settings by J.D.Heinichen). I think, though I don't have chapter and verse to hand, that the "bitterness" is inferred rather than documented, from the fact that JDZ was repeatedly passed over for promotion; there are also some contemporary accounts of performances of his music which describe it in less than glowing terms. He seems also to have been less than confident about his own abilities as a composer, as could be inferred from his studies somewhat late in life with Fux and the existence of several alternative movements in his instrumental works in case the original, if I recall correctly, be considered too "coarse". Indeed his contrapuntal writing, while often intricate and original, frequently crosses the boundaries of what would have been considered good taste, eg. the closing bars of the French overture in the Ouverture a 7, which would have been frowned at in any counterpoint class then or now. There still isn't a really recommendable recording of all of his orchestral music, I think: the Camerata Bern one is beautifully played but somewhat harshly recorded and on modern instruments, while the more recent one on cpo by "Das Neu-Eröffnete Orchestre" shows how natural horn playing has improved in the interim (I don't think those parts could have been played on unvalved instruments in the 1970s) and has its highlights, but is otherwise IMO a little lacking in bite and energy, and often seems to be trying to sweep some of the more "eccentric" moments in the music under the carpet so to speak. As for the trio sonatas, the set by Ensemble Zefiro is I think the one to go for. Who are the performers on the one you posted, Philidor? Most interesting. I've heard it's near impossible to play Zelenka at modern pitch, which makes sense. High modern oboes, screaming brass and bel canto sopranos trilling away together is not my idea of a good time. Zelenka, apparently, was on a=400 for much of his career and dipped as low as 370 depending on local tuning. But I'd be hard-pressed to find an immediate source for that! One difficulty is he wrote little small scale material (or little survived) but mostly big masses. That puts a modern concert promoter in a quandary. It's expensive to put on a Zelenka mass and, because he's little known, you run the risk of low ticket sales and a big loss. Much safer to stick to Brandenburg 5 (again). I understand the Czechs are taking him to their heart - he's become a matter of national pride - so perhaps new recordings will emerge from there. The linked trios are played by: Stephen Hammer and Kathleen Staten, hautboys Rhoda Patrick, bassoon Nigel North, theorbo Michael Willens, violone Myron Lutzke, violoncello Remaining movements here: http://www.hoboy.net/zelenka/Because I'm new to this site I should add I've no interest in the recordings. Besides, because of their provenance, I doubt anyone's made money from them, and never will. I put up a Zelenka thread on the R3 forum recently, encouraging a producer to track down the copyright holder and arrange an R3 performance. They’re so well done it’s absurd they’re stuck in legal limbo.
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Philidor
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« Reply #19 on: 08:27:03, 03-07-2008 » |
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I asked the Profs over on the Zelenka forum about Zelenka's alleged 'bitterness' and there's no truth in it. As the Zelenka forum members say: 'Anyone who knows Zelenka's last masses will know that he couldn't possibly have been bitter...' and 'His late masses are joyous, exhubrant, full of fun in places, and lovingly tender in other places. Certainly not the work of a "bitter" man by any stretch of the imagination.' I think critics have made up the lie because they feel shame at Zelenka's neglect. It sort of justifies it: 'Oh, he was so bitter and may once have kicked a cat!' i.e. there's no need to listen to his music. http://www.jdzelenka.net/forums/showthread.php?p=382
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #20 on: 11:29:39, 03-07-2008 » |
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(I've never actually kicked a cat but I did get very cross at one once when it was hanging by a claw from my earlobe.)
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #21 on: 11:33:39, 03-07-2008 » |
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I haven't played much Zelenka, but the little I have is very unidiomatic for violin. Maybe the people accusing him of bitterness are string players who can't get into his music as readily as wind players.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #22 on: 11:43:16, 03-07-2008 » |
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(I've never actually kicked a cat but I did get very cross at one once when it was hanging by a claw from my earlobe.)
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #23 on: 11:44:09, 03-07-2008 » |
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(I've never actually kicked a cat but I did get very cross at one once when it was hanging by a claw from my earlobe.)
(I've never actually kicked a cat but I did get very cross at one once when it was hanging by a claw from my earlobe.)
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richard barrett
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« Reply #24 on: 11:45:22, 03-07-2008 » |
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'Anyone who knows Zelenka's last masses will know that he couldn't possibly have been bitter...' and 'His late masses are joyous, exhubrant, full of fun in places, and lovingly tender in other places. Certainly not the work of a "bitter" man by any stretch of the imagination.' I don't really see how that follows, though - music in that period wasn't principally intended to express the composer's individuality but to fulfil a brief laid down by his employer, and the idea of a composer's personality traits turning up as stylistic features in the music really begins with a later generation, doesn't it? I don't think there's any baroque music at all of which one can say just from listening that it must have been composed by a "bitter man". Does that mean they were all happily industrious and/or unquestioningly pious? I don't think so. Zelenka on the other hand did write an instrumental piece entitled Hipocondrie, set the Lamentations of Jeremiah (not so commonly done in his time and place) and wrote no fewer than four Requiems, which might or might not indicate a certain morbid frame of mind. Isn't there already a Microscopic Cat Anecdotes thread?
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George Garnett
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« Reply #25 on: 11:54:51, 03-07-2008 » |
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Yikes! I didn't mean to do that. I was only trying to read Ollie's little writing and it all went horribly wrong.
Welcome to the UK and to the English summer, Turfers. And, er, um, following Martle's lead, a big slurpy kiss from me too ... of the sort that Zelenka might or might not have been accustomed to giving.
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #26 on: 20:19:44, 03-07-2008 » |
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Has anyone a kerchief I can borrow?
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Morticia
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« Reply #27 on: 20:36:28, 03-07-2008 » |
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Hmm. Tricky one, turfs. So many to choose from. Here's a selection of kerchiefs for the bonce aka head. Be quiet, Martle Kerchiefs for dogs ... Or As if life wasn't complicated enough!
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #28 on: 21:05:36, 03-07-2008 » |
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and bel canto sopranos trilling away
I don't really want to derail a very interesting discussion about Zelenka, but I think there is a misunderstanding of terminology here. "Bel canto" (""beautiful singing") is a technique, not a kind of singer. The central aspects of the technique consist of grounding the voice correctly on proper breathing; use of the body's natural resonating chambers, most especially those in the face and head; avoiding artificially "darkening" the sound by carrying weight into the upper register of the voice; and achieving an even tone, quality and agility throughout the three registers, including being able to move between them with no perceptible timbral difference. This school of singing was taught in Italy (from where the best soloists of Zelenka's day came - Hasse famously married the soprano Durastante, who had been Handel's prima donna in London). How you *use* the technique to sing music is entirely a matter of taste and discretion, and has nothing to do with the technique itself. The technique is simply a liferaft for singers, to equip them with the means necessary to compete on solo terms with an orchestra of strings, brass, woodwind and continuo instruments. In the same way that violinists played Hasse and Rossini with substantially the same technique, singers also used this same school of solo singing - because it is the *only* way of singing this repertoire (with the characteristic requirements of passagio, coloratura, lyrical cantilena, and stylistic devices such as the messa di voce) and get through the music night after night, reliably, dependably and stylistically. Despite an eager record-buying public, there is no basis at all in documentation for the pseudo-boy-treble sound so popularised during the "early music revival", although it has its place in music actually written for boy trebles of course.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House" - Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Philidor
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« Reply #29 on: 11:58:19, 04-07-2008 » |
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which might or might not indicate That's the operative phrase. No one knows if Zelenka was a miserable old fart or an irritating 'the glass is half full!' merchant. It's a mystery with no scholarly sources - not letters in which he complains of stomach ache or lost love, no contemporary accounts of him being caught weeping in the organ loft, ziltch. Yet numerous people now repeat the lie that he was 'bitter'. It's odd that an obscure 18th century Bohemian should be in receipt of the tabloid treatment.
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