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oliver sudden
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« Reply #15 on: 22:13:07, 06-01-2008 » |
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No contest in the paternity department.....
Well, with all those kids workin' away copying out the parts for this and that, and finishing things off for him, no wonder he was able to be so prolific  You can just picture the family scene at suppertime, with JC saying to CPE... "Here, can you polish the rest off for me? In G minor in 12/8, with a modulation into the relative major at Bar 32, an interrupted cadence at Bar 48, finishing in the tonic at Bar 60. In the style of JS Bach. If you do it before lunchtime, you can go out play Sturm & Drang with Stamitz in the afternoon."  By Baroque standards he wasn't all that prolific though (er, at writing music) - he certainly got a fair bit out there but compared with your Telemanns and Graupners with well over 1000 cantatas each he was practically a slacker! |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #16 on: 23:26:20, 06-01-2008 » |
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but compared with your Telemanns and Graupners with well over 1000 cantatas each he was practically a slacker! Shhhh, Roger Wright might hear! And then we'll get "A Graupner Christmas" later this year... |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Baz
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« Reply #17 on: 23:44:16, 06-01-2008 » |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #18 on: 23:47:59, 06-01-2008 » |
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Mind you, think of all the chalumeau gigs that would arise as a result |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #19 on: 06:51:26, 07-01-2008 » |
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1442 cantatas, to be precise. Alas only 80-odd have chalumeaus in them. And hardly any are published so one would need to get a team working like mad in the Darmstadt library for years just to get the materials. On the other hand judging from the ones I've seen the parts have largely survived and are mostly clear enough to play from. Surprisingly little of that French violin clef nonsense although he did still do that thing of using a sharp as a natural after a flat... 2010: 250 years since he died. If anyone's planning some Graupner gigs and is short of a chalumeau (or an adequate tenor who can read music and has reasonable German) you know what to do And now, back to our advertised programme. |
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #21 on: 11:51:14, 07-01-2008 » |
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Bach didn't write any operas. Handel didn't write any liturgical pieces (except for a very grand occasions, like the Coronation or the Battle of Dettingen). So can they be compared?
(I am just flagging this thread so it comes among my "new replies".
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #22 on: 13:25:52, 07-01-2008 » |
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Bach didn't write any operas.
True indeed, but the Coffee-Cantata and the Peasant-Cantata come very close to the genre - I've seen the Coffee-Cantata staged more than once. I'm afraid the (single) joke in it wears a bit thin by the end |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #23 on: 16:17:52, 07-01-2008 » |
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #24 on: 16:21:27, 07-01-2008 » |
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Coffee-Cantata and the Peasant-Cantata come very close Come to think of it, I don't know any Bach works to secular texts. The Coffee Cantata sounds the sort of thing that makes the English think the term "German comedy" sound a contradiction in terms. No doubt a dubious ethnic stereotype on my part, and there are plenty of unfunny English works. |
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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richard barrett
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« Reply #25 on: 21:30:13, 07-01-2008 » |
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The Peasant Cantata is a fine piece, I think, and let's not forget the Hunting Cantata too, and a few of JSB's other secular cantatas like Weichet nur, betrübte Schatten and Der zufriedengestellte Äolus. (Neither of which contribute any numbers to the Christmas Oratorio.)
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C Dish
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« Reply #26 on: 21:58:20, 07-01-2008 » |
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Just listening to Weinen Klagen Sorgen Zagen again.
This may require another thread if it takes off, but am I wrong in thinking that Bach's recitatives don't repeat text all that often? Or is it commonplace?
Wir müssen durch viel Trübsal
durch viel Trübsal
Wir müssen durch viel Trübsal
durch viel Trübsal in das Reich Gottes eingehen.
I am fastforwarding through the St Matthew Passion in my head, and not coming up with examples, though that's a more narrative work. Who knows other prominent, particularly expressive examples of intra-recitative text repetition in the cantatatas [sic] of Bach?
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inert fig here
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richard barrett
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« Reply #27 on: 22:14:36, 07-01-2008 » |
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Generally text isn't repeated in Bach's recitatives. However, the recit/aria division isn't so clearly delineated in the earlier cantatas (such as BWV 12). Also, recitative will occasionally even in later works give way to arioso sections which might involve as much text-repetition as an aria proper, though without the ABA form or musical repetitions. One of my favourite examples of this is is the opening of BWV 108, Es ist euch gut, dass ich hingehe, which (sung by DFD) was one of the things that originally attracted me to Bach's cantatas. (Which I listen to and study often.)
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #28 on: 00:53:32, 11-01-2008 » |
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If you go to www.googlefight.com and put in Bach versus Handel, one of them comes out a clear hands-down winner... |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #29 on: 03:55:00, 11-01-2008 » |
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At last, Strina's found an objective and authorative answer! Even using the composers' full names (to remove Richard Bach, Pamela Bach, Bach Flower Remedies etc) JS Bach is a clear winner.
Bach is thus proven to be Top Baroque Composer, and much better than the other baroque composer. Branches of Paddy Powers Turf Accountants will pay-out at 15/2 on this authoratative result. Stewards from the S C Grew Association for.Objective Composer Rankings declared themselves satisfied with a fair outcome.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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