trained-pianist
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« Reply #15 on: 12:03:15, 24-02-2007 » |
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Why do we have so many recordings of the same thing? I am listening now to Jansen and it is good. But is it very different than many others? Il Grande Inquisitor. you have been quoted on radio 3 about the subject of Jansen.
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #16 on: 12:11:28, 24-02-2007 » |
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And it's good to know that Mr McGregor's taking careful note of the views of the Inquisition, t-p!! Hope you're enjoying Jansen's performance.
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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thompson1780
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« Reply #17 on: 12:18:26, 24-02-2007 » |
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IGI - thanks, will keep the comments coming! SusanDoris - I think Janine Jansen's partner is Julian Rachlin, must to the chagrin of Lord Byron Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #18 on: 14:23:34, 24-02-2007 » |
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I thought it was a very good performance by Jansen, but do we need yet another recording? I don't want to say that we don't I am just asking.
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #19 on: 14:41:48, 24-02-2007 » |
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A very interesting question, t-p. I think there are always opportunities for new recordings of familiar repertoire if they have something to say. Ironically, the advent of the Compact Disc, which I think initially saw a boost in the number of recordings being made, seems to have brought about the perceived decline in the record industry. Let me explain my theory.
It didn’t take companies too long to realise that many of them were sitting on back catalogues of ‘classic’ recordings that they could cheaply transfer to CD and sell at ‘mid-price’. There was certainly a market for people waiting for their favourite LPs of yesteryear to be released; I know – I always turned to the back pages of ‘The Gramophone’ each month to search, in vain usually, for treasured recordings to make a reappearance! Once they started releasing these, alongside enterprising companies like Naxos making new, digital recordings of core repertoire and selling them at ‘super-bargain’ price, the number of new recordings the like of Decca, DG and EMI could reasonably afford to make was always going to decline. A new recording of a less than well-known opera, Strauss’ ‘Die Frau ohne Schatten’ for example, is never going to recoup its costs, even when they’re recorded live, as new opera recordings often tend to be these days. That is why companies turn to ‘crossover’ artistes they can market aggressively or issue very popular works, like the Mendelssohn/Bruch, to add to the coffers. Now, if they issued the Jansen purely on the basis that she’s an attractive young lady and her looks might sell a few thousand copies then, no, we don’t need another recording. But if the new recording has artistic merit, as I believe this new one does, then it is most welcome. I haven’t investigated Jansen’s other CDs as yet, suspecting it was all a marketing ploy, but I think I shall look out that first recital now as I think she is one of the, thankfully many, young violinists around at the moment whose career may be worth following in the years to come.
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #20 on: 15:04:04, 24-02-2007 » |
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Thank you, Il Grande Inquisitor. I enjoyed reading your post. I am proned to extreme opinions, I think. I always loved old recording. I think now the level of of performance high, but less individuality than before. May be this view is too extreme. I can see that the way people play evolves with time. Even in my time I can see how it was so popular to play for example like Gould and now Hewitt and Schiff play Bach differently.
I am going to wait for Jansen concert. There is a violinist Midori who was high flying at one time. I don't hear her as much now. People loved her, she was young and small. However, her tone on the violin and expression were much crudel (not so many subtle things) like old masters. It is only my opinion and as I say may be it is extreme. I am listening now to James Ehnes and he sounds very exquisite.
I even think now that if Jansen good looks sell more records so what, it is even better.
Thank you again for such a informative and interesting post. With my reasoning one can come to a conclusion that we only want to have one recording of each piece.
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thompson1780
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« Reply #21 on: 15:08:46, 24-02-2007 » |
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t-p, I think... ...there's an element of expectation (if you are going to be a violinist and record something, then you start with the bruch and mendelssohn, or in recent years with vivaldi) ...even if there isn't much different from other recordings, there's something about making sure 'important' works are in a soloists discography - if only for posterity. For example, Jansen is obviously a talented violinist and may be remembered in 50 years or so. If she hadn't recorded the Bruch / Mendelssohn, people would obviously ask "I wonder what her Bruch would have been like" - I guess it's a way of making sure you have a legacy ..Classic FM have got to do something 'new' (in the loosest sense of the word) every now and then. Actually, I quite liked Jansen on the Radio today. There's an element of guts in her playing, rather than just effortless technique. FOr me, somewhere in the playing there needs to be a bit of struggle, not against the violin, but to put tension in the music. Ideally, I would have liked some more punch from Jansen, but she was fine nonetheless. I'm sure you can do something 'new' with these works, but it will either require a good pair of ears to detect it, or involve distorting the piece to the extenet that it may appear contrived and tasteless. For me, the Mendelssohn offers more opportunity for flexibility in tempi and rubato without losing all credibility. Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #22 on: 15:13:54, 24-02-2007 » |
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With my reasoning one can come to a conclusion that we only want to have one recording of each piece.
Oh, I used to have this view, which is why I sought out a ‘ best’ version which would last a lifetime...certainly the cheaper option, but how wrong I was!! When the Beethoven symphony cycle with Harnoncourt came along, I read the ecstatic reviews (yes, reviews are important in helping to inform one's critical opinions) and decided to break my self-imposed rule and buy the recordings. I loved them and soon afterwards went to see Harnoncourt conduct them with Philharmonia. I now own six cycles of the Beethoven! Indulgent? Possibly. Rewarding? Certainly.
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #23 on: 15:23:13, 24-02-2007 » |
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Thank you Tommo, Thank you Il Grande Inquisitor. I enjoyed reading your posts. I think you made good points. I can see better now why thinkgs are done this way. It is exciting to see how each performer negotiates difficult well known pieces. Janses is talented violinst, no argument there.
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thompson1780
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« Reply #24 on: 16:18:50, 24-02-2007 » |
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And thank heavens I haven't followed the "one recording only" rule. I only have a few of the Mendelssohn and Bruch, but this thread has inspired me to listen to them all, and it is really rewarding.
Just listened to Alfred Campoli's 1969 Bruch with the New Symphony Orchestra and Royalton Kisch, for example. Not the greatest playing, as he is a bit clunky on some of the double stops - it sounds like a technical reason for making a rubato rather than a musical one - and intonation is a bit off in places.
But these are minor things and don't really get in the way of a very 'different' performance. Most Bruchs I hear are broody at the beginning and then like an angry young man. Campoli seems to bring a ruefulness, a sorrow, to the work - it feels like an old man who is lamenting the way of the world and occasionally lashing out (and he was 63 at the time). His second movement is also a lot gentler and more distant in tone, which gives it a nostalgic quality - like the throws of a love remembered, rather than a tumultuous and present relationship. I really like it.
His Mendelssohn (also 1969, LSO and Eduard van Beinum) is also good - The first movement is fairly straight. Usually people put in lots of rits and a tempos but mendelssohn does not mark any. Campoli keeps the tempi, or only varies slightly, and it lets the music speak. I think there's a lot to be said about players who don't do anything, rather than players who do something, if you see what I mean. Having said that, Campoli sticks in some octaves (not written) just before the presto of the first movement, which made me smile.
His second movement is very spring like, innocent. Young, a big difference from the Bruch. I think it's something to do with his gentle, sweet tone. And the last movement is very fast and very clear - great fun.
I'll certainly play this in a different way the next time I do it
Tommo
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #25 on: 16:42:25, 24-02-2007 » |
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Alfred Campoli is a new name for me. I don't like when people make something out of music that it is not, or put emotions in it that are not there, rits, ralls etc. Some performances touch me and some not as much. I am inpired now to listen to different interpretations of music I play too.
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John W
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« Reply #26 on: 18:06:12, 24-02-2007 » |
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Correct name is Alfred o Campoli
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thompson1780
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« Reply #27 on: 18:34:58, 24-02-2007 » |
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Ooops! Sticky key!
Thanks JW
Tommo
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FisherMartinJ
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« Reply #28 on: 16:42:18, 06-03-2007 » |
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Nobody seems to have picked up the query on who invented the standard LP Mendelssohn/ Bruch coupling.
Checking my library (books, that is), the Camopli/ LPO/ Van Beinum seems to be the earliest such listing in The Record Guide of 1955, though other listed LP couplings for the Mendelssohn there are the Mozart G major concerto (Stern) and the Beethoven Romances (Menuhin/ Furtwangler). Oddly, the Bruch listings show Heifetz c/w Mozart K219, Varga with K207, and Campoli/ New SO/ Kisch c/w Bach Sonata No 4 (but no mention of any Mendelssohn coupling even for Campoli).
In their 1956 supplement the only new Mendelssohn is Milstein/ PittsburghSO/ Steinberg with the Bruch. So by then there were at least two such couplings in the UK - was this enough to set the standard? Of course, LPs were already much better established in the USA so possibly the US companies had already established this standard and Europe had to follow. Can anyone confirm or disprove?
Turning to the one volume I possess (A-L) of Peter Gammond's Music on Record (1962), Bruch No 1 has 4 12" LP versions listed, one c/w Spohr #8 (Field), one with Lalo Symph espagnole (Stern) and two with the Mendelssohn (Ricci/ Gamba) and (Menuhin/ Susskind).
I do hope this has helped, or at least revived pleasant memories. My first version of both voncertos was the Ricci on 'World of the Great Classics', probably 99p c1972. My dad had the Menuhin disc but I always found him very coarse and inelegant in the Mendelssohn finale - no Mendelssohnian fairies there IIRC! Comments?
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'the poem made of rhubarb in the middle and the surround of bubonic marzipan'
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George Garnett
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« Reply #29 on: 19:26:59, 06-03-2007 » |
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Most Bruchs I hear are broody at the beginning and then like an angry young man. Campoli seems to bring a ruefulness, a sorrow, to the work - it feels like an old man who is lamenting the way of the world and occasionally lashing out (and he was 63 at the time). Blimey, was he?! I heard him play the Bruch in 1973 so he must have been 67 by then! I'm afraid I was rather a snooty and serious youth who thought I ought to look down on anything as romantic as Bruch, and probably on Campoli as well who was associated in my mind more with Radio 2/Light Programme-ish repertoire by then, not exactly Palm Court Orchestra but heading that way. It was absolutely transfixing though. I would say 'beguiling' but it might set the security klaxons off. His violin tone was perhaps the sweetest I've ever heard. A ravishing sound which suited the piece to perfection. I admit to being completely seduced.
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