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Bryn
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« on: 10:23:47, 28-01-2008 » |
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A recently started thread on Platform 3 at TOP has raised the matter of the use of solo strings from the last beat of bar 59 to the third beat of bar 75 of the finale of Beethoven's 3rd Symphony. Does anyone here have Del Mar's edition of the score? Zinman's seems to be the only currently available recording which uses solo strings at the point, but apparently JEG has also now adopted the practice in performance (though in his Archiv recording he still used the full body of strings). Anyone know on what authority Zinman and JEG might be basing their decisions on this matter? I think it works rather well, but is it what Beethoven intended?
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Robert Dahm
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« Reply #1 on: 10:55:27, 28-01-2008 » |
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The viola and cello parts are marked 'soli' in the Del Mar scores, with a footnote that the sources have a 'solo' marking for them. There is no such marking on either of the violin parts. There is also no cancelling 'tutti'-type marking anywhere, but it's relatively apparent that everybody needs to be playing at the upbeat to 76. I don't have the Critical Commentary to these editions, just the scores themselves, so I'm not really able to offer any more detail than that, I'm afraid.
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Bryn
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« Reply #2 on: 11:24:21, 28-01-2008 » |
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The viola and cello parts are marked 'soli' in the Del Mar scores, with a footnote that the sources have a 'solo' marking for them. There is no such marking on either of the violin parts. There is also no cancelling 'tutti'-type marking anywhere, but it's relatively apparent that everybody needs to be playing at the upbeat to 76. I don't have the Critical Commentary to these editions, just the scores themselves, so I'm not really able to offer any more detail than that, I'm afraid.
Thanks for that, Robert. I will post a link to your message, on the Platform 3 board. |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #3 on: 13:42:49, 28-01-2008 » |
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Andrew Manze's recording (as conductor) of the 'Eroica' is out in the next couple of months: it might be interesting to see what he gets up to in that passage, Bryn ...
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Bryn
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« Reply #4 on: 15:17:15, 28-01-2008 » |
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Andrew Manze's recording (as conductor) of the 'Eroica' is out in the next couple of months: it might be interesting to see what he gets up to in that passage, Bryn ...
Well here's up to bar 100 in the Zinman recording. See what you think of that passage with solo strings. By the way, although it uses the mp3 suffix, that's not an mp3 file. It's Lame, and Lame Ain't an Mp3 Encoder. |
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George Garnett
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« Reply #5 on: 15:29:18, 28-01-2008 » |
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Goodness. Thanks for that, Bryn. I could get used to that.
And even when (most times presumably) it is played with a full complement in future I've a feeling it's now going to sound different, having heard that.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #6 on: 15:31:59, 28-01-2008 » |
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that's not an mp3 file. It's Lame  |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #7 on: 18:56:16, 28-01-2008 » |
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It's Lame, and Lame Ain't an Mp3 Encoder.
Is that a joke, Bryn? Are you saying that 'LAME' is an acronym for 'Lame Ain't an Mp3 Encoder'?? |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Bryn
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« Reply #8 on: 00:24:19, 29-01-2008 » |
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It's Lame, and Lame Ain't an Mp3 Encoder.
Is that a joke, Bryn? Are you saying that 'LAME' is an acronym for 'Lame Ain't an Mp3 Encoder'?? Google it if you doubt it, t_i_n. Point is, it's freeware, whereas mp3 isn't. LAME is, to my ears, better than Fraunhofer's mp3, as well as being open source. LAME is, however, fully compatible with mp3 decoders. |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #9 on: 01:02:34, 29-01-2008 » |
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How many players do you really need for the Eroica anyway?Other fine string solos from Beethoven symphonies I've heard about from his time include the use of a solo violin in the slow movement of the 9th, and of a solo double bass for the recitative passages in the last movement of same. Now the latter I could take or leave but the former would have a wonderful Missa Solemnis-type effect I reckon. Anyone know anyone who's tried it?
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Bryn
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« Reply #10 on: 09:20:13, 29-01-2008 » |
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How many players do you really need for the Eroica anyway?Other fine string solos from Beethoven symphonies I've heard about from his time include the use of a solo violin in the slow movement of the 9th, and of a solo double bass for the recitative passages in the last movement of same. Now the latter I could take or leave but the former would have a wonderful Missa Solemnis-type effect I reckon. Anyone know anyone who's tried it? Slow movement sample from that disc, here. |
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #11 on: 13:24:18, 29-01-2008 » |
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The Rattle set with the Vienna PO is also based on the Del Mar scores but he does not use solo strings at that point.
I can think of the solo cello in the trio of the third movement of the 8th, but that's always been there. Rattle uses muted strings for the second movement of the 6th. (I'm unable to check the Zinman version of the 6th at the moment, and like Robert Dahm above, I've got the Del Mar scores but not the critical commentary.)
The Zinman symphonies are well worth having. I like their fresh approach but I would hesitate to recommend them to anyone who only wanted one set. I also like the Cluytens set and they're quite different.
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« Last Edit: 13:27:52, 29-01-2008 by Tony Watson »
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