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Author Topic: Beethoven's Tenth  (Read 161 times)
Mrs. Kerfoops
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« on: 13:34:58, 24-10-2008 »

Beethoven's Tenth Symphony had he lived to complete it was to be based upon a most interesting and worth-while subject: "The reconciliation of the Pagan with the Christian world." That great task even to-day remains to be achieved does it not? We plan to-morrow to post a few musical extracts which might indicate the direction of the composer's thoughts. In the mean time have any Members heard the several attempted "realisations" and how do they find them?

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SH
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« Reply #1 on: 13:41:19, 24-10-2008 »

It is the only art which renders us completely unconscious

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Milly Jones
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« Reply #2 on: 16:48:02, 24-10-2008 »

I can remember having an argument with one of our bridge partners about Beethoven's Tenth several years ago.  I had just read about the manuscript being found.  He was adamant that there was no such thing.  It therefore gave me great pleasure to tell him a couple of weeks later that the BBC was broadcasting a performance of it.  This programme will be in the archives somewhere I should imagine.  It was a long time ago - maybe as many as 12 years or even more.  His only comment after hearing the performance was that "It certainly won't challenge the other 9."  My comment was that it wasn't meant to challenge the other 9, was incomplete and was a hugely important find.  I enjoyed it immensely.

Unfortunately I haven't heard it performed or a recording of it since.  I'd be interested in any information as well.
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We pass this way but once.  This is not a rehearsal!
autoharp
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« Reply #3 on: 17:00:26, 24-10-2008 »

Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._10_(Beethoven/Cooper)
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richard barrett
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« Reply #4 on: 17:04:51, 24-10-2008 »

Autoharp seems to have got there first - while Beethoven might well have written more symphonies had he lived longer, the fragmentary sketches assembled by Barry Cooper don't necessarily have anything to do with one another, so this isn't at all on the same kind of level of "validity" as the realisations of Mahler's 10th by Deryck Cooke and numerous others, or Newbould's version (or for that matter Berio's) of Schubert's 10th. I did hear this piece once and thought it sounded like a well-done pastiche in the style of Beethoven, which is more or less what it is.

Here's a bit more from Professor Cooper:

Quote
Altogether there are around 250 bars of sketches for the first movement. Some duplicate or contradict each other, leaving less than 200 usable; but many of these can be used more than once, by means of repetitions and reprises such as occur in all of Beethoven's symphonies (for example, a theme sketched for the exposition will recur in the recapitulation). The sketches thereby provide us with well over 300 bars, while the remaining 200 bars or so (out of 531) have had to be adapted from the same basic themes by various means (e.g. by transposition and sequence) and developed in the way Beethoven normally did. Thus, all the basic thematic material is Beethoven's; but appropriate harmony has had to be added in places where it is missing, the movement has had to be orchestrated in Beethoven's style (with the aid of only a few clues in the sketches), and linking passages based on Beethoven's themes have been inserted where necessary.
The result is obviously not exactly what Beethoven would have written, and in certain places in particular he would probably have been more imaginative.

Probably??
« Last Edit: 17:12:23, 24-10-2008 by richard barrett » Logged
Antheil
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« Reply #5 on: 17:10:49, 24-10-2008 »

It seems the 1st movement may be downloaded here for £2.80

http://www.theclassicalshop.net/details06MP3.asp?CNumber=CHAN%206501W
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #6 on: 17:13:29, 24-10-2008 »

www.lvbeethoven.com/Cedes/TheCds_SymphonyTenth.html
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Kuhlau
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Kasper Meier


« Reply #7 on: 17:39:31, 24-10-2008 »

I've seen at least three different recorded versions of the first movement turn up at my local Oxfam Music and Books. Oddly, for someone who has every (published) note of Beethoven's music on his shelves, I've never been tempted to sample this fragment. Do I fear it will somehow taint the crowning achievement that is the finale of the Ninth Symphony? Or am I just a tight-wad who should've bought all three versions and contributed a few pence more than usual to charity? Grin

FK
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richard barrett
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« Reply #8 on: 17:54:34, 24-10-2008 »

Oddly, for someone who has every (published) note of Beethoven's music on his shelves, I've never been tempted to sample this fragment

I think you'd soon hear the difference between it and Beethoven. If I'd been told it was by some relatively minor talent in the early nineteenth century who'd been under Beethoven's influence, like, umm, Kuhlau, I might have believed it.
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Kuhlau
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Kasper Meier


« Reply #9 on: 18:05:52, 24-10-2008 »

Oddly, for someone who has every (published) note of Beethoven's music on his shelves, I've never been tempted to sample this fragment

I think you'd soon hear the difference between it and Beethoven. If I'd been told it was by some relatively minor talent in the early nineteenth century who'd been under Beethoven's influence, like, umm, Kuhlau, I might have believed it.

Grin

FK
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