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Author Topic: The most constructive way to listen  (Read 2182 times)
Chafing Dish
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« Reply #15 on: 21:43:14, 24-07-2007 »

I took an eight year break from music.  It was the best decision I ever made.  I came back to it with an entirely different attitude, and I am now grateful and appreciative of everything I hear. 

Reiner, what (out of interest) did you do for those eight years? And how do you think whatever it was may have enhanced your capacity to come back to music so refreshed?
Also, what line of work are you in, exactly? Are you a composer? (Divulge as you feel comfortable!) I'd really like to benefit from your perspective, but as I said, I don't imagine I have the 'luxury' to give it a rest without causing a less than acceptable upheaval in my life.
« Last Edit: 23:01:45, 24-07-2007 by Chafing Dish » Logged
increpatio
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« Reply #16 on: 22:25:51, 24-07-2007 »

I don't imagine I have the 'luxury' to give it a rest without causing a more than acceptable upheaval in my life.

Think you missed out on some negation there C-D!

Have you tried listening to music from very different areas to the one you're involved with currently?  Or maybe consider doing something more interdisciplinary? I dunno.  My phases where I get sick of music, where Beethoven pieces just sound like collections of so many tropes, don't usually last for more than a couple of days, so.
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martle
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« Reply #17 on: 22:36:19, 24-07-2007 »

Also, what line of work are you in, exactly? Are you a composer? (Divulge as you feel comfortable!) I'd really like to benefit from your perspective, but as I said, I don't imagine I have the 'luxury' to give it a rest without causing a more than acceptable upheaval in my life.

CD, I'm sure Reiner will be along to fill this out, but he works as the director of an opera/music theatre outfit in Moscow (plus, I think, a bit of freelance direction too), writes travel journals/articles and restaurant reviews, and holidays on horseback in the Urals.

But like I say, he'll put me right...  Wink Cheesy
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Chafing Dish
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« Reply #18 on: 23:01:21, 24-07-2007 »

Think you missed out on some negation there C-D!
Thanks, I fixed it. And I listen to an extremely broad variety of musics from all walks/eras/areas of life. Perhaps the opposite advice, i.e., to listen to only one kind of music for a while? Or perhaps to cut out the music listening for a little while? Really it's my own problem, and not a severe one.
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increpatio
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« Reply #19 on: 23:17:43, 24-07-2007 »

Think you missed out on some negation there C-D!
Thanks, I fixed it. And I listen to an extremely broad variety of musics from all walks/eras/areas of life. Perhaps the opposite advice, i.e., to listen to only one kind of music for a while? Or perhaps to cut out the music listening for a little while? Really it's my own problem, and not a severe one.

Well whether sever or not it is rather unpleasant I can imagine.

It might be an idea to cut out the listening to recorded I guess for a bit; there's nothing to stop you from keeping composition in such an environment.  Might even be pleasant in its own way.
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Chafing Dish
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« Reply #20 on: 23:22:09, 24-07-2007 »

My most productive and satisfying year of composition was 1999 -- no stereo, no easy access to recorded media, and of course no internet... Right now though, I have to listen to a great deal of new things for perfeshinal reasons, so.

Who is Sever? Is he unpleasant to everyone?  Smiley
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #21 on: 23:23:08, 24-07-2007 »

Reiner, what (out of interest) did you do for those eight years? And how do you think whatever it was may have enhanced your capacity to come back to music so refreshed?

I started a small company that I still run, in a sphere completely different from classical music.  It is not especially profitable, but it provides me with a side-income (commensurate with the amount of time I spend doing it - my staff earn more than I do from it, which the taxman disbelieves...) that enables me to be more selective about what work I do now I am "back" doing classical music.  I also have another sideline writing and editing guidebooks and newspaper/magazine travel pieces (I turn up in The Independent sometimes, under my real name, and less occasionally on BBC R4 on progs like Excess Baggage).

I wasn't looking to "promote" myself here, but since ChafingDish has asked - I'm an opera director (ie I stage-direct operas). I have a secondary musical job co-running a "travelling" Music Festival which takes mainly modern music into more distant locations in Russia (and occasionally into Mongolia if we can get the funding)....  since the end of the USSR funding for new music outside Moscow & St P has dried-up to a worrying degree, and we are able to cross-subsidise performances in "non-financially-viable" locations (Krasnodar, Krasnoyarsk, Sochi, Perm', Irkutsk, Nizhny Novgorod, Kazan', Kostroma, and others) with Moscow and St P (it is important to our sponsors that Moscow and St P are in the sched, we need the Press notices there for PR purposes).

I am not really sure I ever intended "coming back" to it, actually - but in the end I couldn't keep away from it. I actually slipped back to doing it accidentally, when I was asked if I could coach some Russian singers on an opera in English, just to help out - and from there I got asked to stage things, and now I stage about 3-4 productions per year (plus the Music Festival)...  which is as many as I am happy with.  

Before I took a break I think I'd slipped into that opera-house world of bad-mouthing everything, trashing anything I saw or heard, and working on each show with an attitude of "oh gawd what on EARTH can we do to save this old cobblers?".  Part of this, I think, came from a working schedule in which I had little or no choice over what I worked on (and to be fair, some of the shows I was doing were on their very last legs after donkeys years in repertoire - it's very depressing doing work which you know is fobbing the public off with old tat).  I can't say that I reached the decision to quit for artistic reasons however - a bereavement (and caring for someone through the last stages of a debilitating illness) prompted me to rethink my life.  This was also part of leaving the UK - I needed a new start after all that.

I'm now in the very happy position where almost everything I am doing is work that I very much want to perform (I have a long list of those, which should keep me going for a while!), and we now have sufficient impetus that we can commission new work (we have premiered several new orchestral works, and next season we have our first opera commission).  But more than that - I no longer "have" to listen to anything, and anything I listen to is for enjoyment and pleasure Smiley   I can also - if I wish to - turn work down that I don't wish to do. More usually this is because the circumstances of the rehearsals, performances or casting sound unrealistic or likely to result in poor work, than because I don't like the piece in question.  The shows I do are often in obscure cities and get no publicity at all - I mention this partly because in my little world, one lives in mortal fear of the knife-in-the-back review, whereas the crits I get now - if any - couldn't hurt me seriously if they were poor anyhow.

I am not in any way suggesting what I did as a model for others, and I would not wish the circumstance which led to it upon anyone. But in truth my work "pre-break" had become stale and formulaic - whereas, for whatever reasons, I am now getting more offers of work than I can realistically accept, and I go into each new project with a mixture of awe and excitement, and honour that someone might have entrusted it to me.

Whilst I am about it, I ought to mention that - without ever realising - our very own Opilec and I turned-out to have been colleagues Smiley  We only found out through an "obscure opera" question about Berwald's THE QUEEN OF GOLCONDA Smiley
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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« Reply #22 on: 08:57:11, 25-07-2007 »

I was very interested in Reiner's  remark about giving up music for a while. I have twice deliberately stopped listening to music for about ten days,both times when I had been at home a lot and listening to music all day.

On one coccasion I took to discovering poetry,visiting a good library to do some reading.It was a very useful cure. I didn't deny myself music,I just didn't want to her any. It was an unusual thing to do, as previously I had been a music addict, listening as often as possible. Even today I habitually put on a tape or the radio as soon as I come into the house, or go to get changed,etc.
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thompson1780
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« Reply #23 on: 16:00:25, 25-07-2007 »

I find it important to have some regular "no music" time.  Takes a bit of discipline, but gardening helps.  Actually, I used to go on mountain walking holidays which really cleared the mind.  Always listened so much better after those breaks.

Tommo
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increpatio
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« Reply #24 on: 16:20:57, 25-07-2007 »

I find it important to have some regular "no music" time.  Takes a bit of discipline, but gardening helps.  Actually, I used to go on mountain walking holidays which really cleared the mind.  Always listened so much better after those breaks.

I have a thing about gardening and audio books....
« Last Edit: 10:36:36, 26-07-2007 by increpatio » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: 19:38:03, 25-07-2007 »

I agree with Kittybriton - for me closing my eyes when listening immediately strengthens my concentration - for me there are just too many distractions around with eyes open and really thinking about other things is an insult to the composer imo
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time_is_now
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« Reply #26 on: 19:43:48, 25-07-2007 »

Funnily enough, I can't listen with my eyes closed. I just end up concentrating on concentrating rather than concentrating on the music, if you see what I mean.

Something else I've found that I wonder if anyone else shares is that I don't seem to retain any memory of a piece if I listen lying down.
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« Reply #27 on: 21:16:42, 25-07-2007 »

I do wonder about the shutting yr eyes mode of listening. At the EXAUDI concert I went to people shut their eyes to the Alvin Lucier piece (as it focused on very narrow streams of sound) than to the Renaissance-era piece played later (it had a tune), but again assuming they both have the same set of distractions why not shut your eyes to both? As t_i_n says its quite an effort so I keep my eyes open.

My mode of listening I'd probably describe as distanced and un-worried if I suddenly start losing concentration. I find that a gd piece can re-engage me at different points so even if I've lost track I can get back 'in' - but maybe that is the beginnings of a 'destructive' way of listening.

To what CD said - way too much music, more than at any other time in history, probably (something that is very obvious though it doesn't stop me from thinking how remarkable it is). One of the many things to like about 'complex' music is how it makes you stop and re-listen to try and just grasp anything AT ALL - makes me angsty and frustrated as well as providing a source of happiness.
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #28 on: 22:20:24, 30-07-2007 »

Just catching up with some of the thoughts on this thread, and finding lots to chime in with my experiences.

Concentration is one thing - I can't do anything else while listening (except, weirdly, driving) and I prefer listening with a score on the second or third hearing rather than the first (something to do with wanting to find the geography aurally rather than visually). Lying down or eyes closed - I can do that, although it is a recent departure. It doesn't necessarily guarantee good listening, and I too have experienced tin's "concentrating on concentrating" phenomenon, but at its best it provides a much more vivid experience. A darkened room is good too - I guess I'm just easily distracted visually.

Being jaded by music itself is something else - I always go back to Bach as the "corrective", and then listen to something quite unconnected with my professional life. I think spending long days playing (not always repertoire one wants to play), examining and teaching can tire the mind of the sound of the piano and whatever else one has been working with/ listening to. (Although I can usually find some corner of the song repertoire to stimulate me again.) But I don't want to blame it all on a not entirely satisfactory professional balance of work; even at school I used to purposely have days away from listening if I sensed my capacity for sheer sensual pleasure was being lost. One admission though - I went through a deeply obsessive listening phase (as in OCD) when I was an early teenager; or perhaps more accurately, my OCD attached itself to many aspects of my listening - choice of music, listening circumstances etc - and that was another factor which took away some of the sensual pleasure of listening. It isn't anywhere near as bad now, but I wonder whether any other members have had similar experiences?
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #29 on: 23:29:17, 30-07-2007 »

It occured to me as I sat in the Kronos 4tet Gorecki/Riley concert yesterday...

... that frankly I only listen with 100% attention (or near to) at live performances.

I am not really sure of the reasons why... whether it's out of respect for the artistry of the performers in front of me... or whether because of the visual connection to the sounds I am hearing, and how they are being physically made... or whether the ideal listening environment of the concert-hall prompts closer attention devoid of distractions...  or some deeper physical/auditory attraction of music created live in front of you...   but nothing that is recorded,  albeit of a "greater" level of interpretative value, can ever supplant live performance for me.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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